I've done a search and read all the opinions on PCCB vs. Iron. I'm considering PCCBs for a GT3 that would be HEAVY track use with R-comps, etc. I've been racing for 10 years and can go through pads and rotors with the best of them.

I tend to lean towards the iron-rotor philosophy. The Pro-PCCB crowd reminds me of my old track buddy whose favorite line was "I know my car is a lot faster because my wallet is so much lighter."

One thing I've noticed is there hasn't been a lot of discussion on cooling. I know from experience that you can get 3x to 5x life out of iron rotors with some good duct work. I would imagine the same case for PCCBs, and over-heating seems to be the big problem?

Anyway, has anyone actually used PCCBs extensively on the track with sticky tires and good ducting? Anyone really tried to make these work?

What are the best tricks to extend PCCB life? Best pads? Thanks!

 

The only real issues with PCCBs that I've heard of, were due to people tracking with "SC/TC ON" (which burns/melts the rear rotors), not doing proper bleeding, not doing a cool down lap, using too aggressive pads and/or not checking the pad life as they should. As long as you do the opposite I just mentioned, PCCBs will be fine and last forever. I know people that put about 30-40, maybe more, competitive track days per year on GT3s with PCCBs and have no issues, and did not have to replace the PCCB rotors. Also, most use cup car brake ducts. Just like anything else, if not maintained properly, will not last.

 

That makes a lot of sense, as cooling is such a huge variable. I can see how porsche's "they last forever no matter what" could get translated into "go to the track and wail away as much as you like and you'll never have an issue."

Has anyone tried hard to maintain/cool PCCBs and still had rapid wear?

 

I don't think cooling is the issue with PCCB as an higher operating temperature is required for them to work. I had to switch to Iron on my GT3 since they were toasted after less than 3.2k miles... I was told that I should have used them with Porsche Motorsport P50 (green) pads instead of OEM. May be that could have resolved the issue but I doubt. The Cup cars went back to steel and there is probably a good reason.

In my case I have to say that the AP Iron replacement rotors (using the same calipers) were braking as hard as the PCCB with no fading. IMO you can get better improvement in braking performance by changing the brake lines to inox and using good track pads (Pagid RS29 in my case).

 

The best way to address issue is to get the GT3 with steel rotors. Then replace the stock brake system with Stoptech big brake kit. This will allow you a better selection of pads and better rotors. Plus Stoptech replacement parts are cheaper.

 

You can eliminate the risk all together, AND save some money in the process, with a good set of 2pc. floating cast iron discs. The benefit to the PCCB's is the weight, and only the weight. For people tracking their car on a regular basis, it's not a matter of "IF" you will have to replace the PCCB's one day...it's "WHEN". Besides the heat issues that many people have experienced, there's also the fact that they are fragile, and track use exposes you to all sorts of ways you can damage the disc.

If you can justify the cost of PCCB's for the performance benefits, spend an almost equal amount on the Brembo GTR brakes. It's turn key, virutally bullet proof, amazing longevity, and nearly zero maintenance.

 

2 days back-to-back at Laguna, 20 sessions, 2 of us hot lapping (i.e. 20 minute session by me, followed by 20 minute session by her, zero down time between sessions)... me in Advanced group and instructing, Girlfriend in Solo2 group/Pointby... Porsche Motorsports Green Pads (NEVER use the stock pads for track days, you'll destroy the pads AND the rotors very quickly).. Best lap was a 1:37.7, many, many 38's 39's 40's, so they got HEAVY, HEAVY use (a 1:37.7 in traffic in a stock engined 3200 lb car is fairly fast) Hoosier R6's in stock sizes...

ZERO issues.. flawless all 20 sessions.. perfect looking rotors at the end of the two days and minimal pad wear on the Greens.. WAY less heat than my previous setups that have included:

Porsche Motorsports Big Reds (NOT the road version) 15" rotors, Pagid Orange pads - Alcon 6 piston, 15" rotors, Ferodo metallic endurance compound.

After a cool down lap, I got back to the pits and could touch my wheels without burning my fingers.

After 20 years of doing this stuff, I am completely sold on the PCCB's as track brakes.. Before I tracked the Car, I wasn't sure, since the dealership I got the Car from had Pagid yellows on it (NOT compatible with PCCB's) and quite frankly the Car was verging on dangerous.

If you do it right, the PCCB's are the best brakes I have ever experienced on the track.. get the correct pads, bed them in correctly, take the first session at the track somewhat easy and you'll love them.

P.S. I never got the ABS to kick in, not once and the brakes were completely dependable, braking points were repeatable lap after lap, the pedal never even HINTED at going soft... I was running ATE Super Blue as fluid and had the brakes bled two days before the track day.

 

80 Shilling, That's exactly the kind of real experience I'm looking for, and probably a good proxy for how I hard I would push the car. Thank you so much for the feedback. Any evidence of how much life you'll get out of them?

 

I haven't taken a pair of calipers to them to measure the wear, however, I gave them serious inspections after each day and everything looks really good.. no uneven color, scuffed areas, roughness... absolutely uniform looking surface.. THe pads are in similarly good shape.

Because the rotors are fairly expensive, I bought a specific set of pad spreaders to help with putting the new pads in.. they push all 6 pistons in and you can do it without contacting the rotors at all.

What I have seen so far on the Internet and on some of the Porsche Forums is people who have heard something from a friend that knows someone whose cousin used PPCB's and his car exploded, so you should NEVER use PCCB's because.. etc, etc.. The number of people who HAVE actually used these brakes is a VERY small subset of POrsche owners and they fall into a couple of groups.. Those that ran the first gen PCCB's at the track with stock pads and did indeed have issues due to the stock pads being too soft for track work.. they overheated, chunks fell out of them and they damaged the rotors through a combination of overheating in some areas and actual physical damage from the chunks being pushed into the rotors by the rest of the pads. The other group, has done their research, gone with the Porsche Motorsports recommended pads, bled their brakes THOROUGHLY, bedded the pads in correctly and have gone on to do many successful track days.

As with all things, if you abuse the hell out of these brakes, they will eventually have issues and you will have to deal with the cost of that. Treat them well and you will be fine.

My 2c

Cheers.

 

Hey Graham

Great feedback on PCCB. Can you explain a little more on the car being dangerous with Pagid yellow pads? Was it RS29 pads? Did the car not stop properly?

How was the P50 pads on street? I heard they don't bite at all when cold and can be dangerous?

Mike

 

Mike,

I got this information from Craig at Rennstore, who got it from experience and also from talking to the Director of Porshe Motorsports for the USA. I'm not advocating running the greens on the street, because you are correct.. they don't get up to temperature on the street and also they sqeak like a bugger... I will put stock pads back in this weekend.

Whatever pads I had in the car when I bought it (probably Pagid yellows) were diabolically bad. THey are definitely NOT for use with PCCB's..

Cheers, GRaham.

 

Yes, Craig is a good guy. I just got a price quote on the green P50 pads and they are not cheap

The only thing that held me back on using the green P50 pads is street safety. They don't bit when cold and I don't want to change caliper bolts swapping out pads each time.

Can you tell me a little more on what was wrong with the Pagid yellow and PCCB? Did the car not stop or just too sensitive? I don't know if you know "Gleenmac" from rennlist. He has a green GT3 RS and so far used 7 sets of RS 29 pads on his PCCB for th last two years running tracks both in England and Nürburgring. His PCCB is in great shape w/o any signs of damage. I also spoke with folks at TRG and many of their customers use Pagid RS 29 with their PCCB with very good feedback. It will be nice to know if you had the RS 19 or RS 29 pads when you first bought the car. The advantage of the RS 29 pads over the P50 green pads is that they bit well even cold

Mike

 

It only takes me 4 minutes per wheel to swap pads out...

I will try to get a part number off the old yellow pads ... They were even worse when cold than the GReens...

Cheers...

 

LOL

Some people are born fast

Wow! that is awful if they are worst cold compare with the green P50 pads. Let me know the parts number. My PCCB is going back on in a week or so before the 2/25 Laguna event

Mike

 

Really good info guys, I never knew these...