Good Morning All,

I am new to this forum and yet another guy that has always wanted to be behind the wheel of his own Porsche. I am 46 now and think it is time I treat myself to my "mid-life" crisis car but want to do it on a budget of $20k or less (this includes the PPI or actually a CPO done by local Porsche dealer).

Here is the current car in my sights: 1990 Black C4 Targa with 89k miles. My major concern is I want to make sure I am not stepping into major problems right from the onset by choosing this model and/or this particular car. The internet forums seem to be riddled with stories of major repair bills on these cars while other posts talk about longevity before any major overhauls have had to be done.....Basically, I am more confused the more I read!

Here are some of the details of the car: " fully optioned with full leather interior, electric sports seats, power windows, power steering, power brakes with ABS and Traction Control,, power mirrors, remote central locking, air conditioning (blows cold), and cruise control. Radio was replaced with a Panasonic CD/Receiver 45Wx4 that has a remote key pad for control. Bottom engine rebuild and clutch in 2009. Additional equipment comprises Cup 2 alloys wheels running 225/40 ZR18 in front and 265/35 ZR18 in rear, high flow exhaust, and whale tail spoiler."

This particular car appears to be in excellent shape, has been garaged it's whole life and the current owner (think 3rd or 4th owner) has had her for 8 years and is selling due to divorce (no one likes to hear that) He seems to know his car very well and says he has a stack of service records from his ownership and the previous owners to share with me. The clutch was done about 3k ago along with some other bottom end items that were suggested by his mechanic to do at the same time. The car has a totally rebuilt targa roof that has never been folded and when removed is set in the guys garage for days that he knows will remain clear and rain-free. The reason I like this car is that these years are currently at an affordable sales price, have the classic 911 look and with the car being about 85% new in 1989, many say this made for a more modern and refined driver. From what I have read the the C4 seems to have really made this generation a much more forgiving car without taking performance out of her. People seem to love or hate the C4 due to it's different handling characteristics. I am not looking for a track car just a nice weekend driver that I can safely run around town in and then open up when on the open highway or less-traveled back roads. I have had experience with the early 911's through friends that have owned them (early 70's cars) and do not miss the rear end surprises they exhibit if you do not stay on the accelerator in fast turns. Where I got a renewed interest in the 911 was this summer......My good friend has a 2001 C2 with less than 20k on it and I drove it for a week while visiting him in Washington state. Seemed very fast for a N/A and loved the feel of the car...much more forgiving that the older C2's I had driven. I just prefer the traditional look of the 911...he also had a sunroof and I have always liked the Targa design because it is more open air than the sunroof and less wind and noise than a cab...

I have contacted my local Porsche dealer and was told that their PPI is just as the CPO inspection would be done. They quoted me $250 to do it but when you add the compression/leak test it adds another $650 to the cost (have seen many posts that insist on having this done)....since labor is already paid, I asked about a plug change at the same time...the additional cost is $181.64 to add for the plugs. The CPO does the DME dump, looks over the RMS, and seems looks to go over the car pretty well. Alot of posts seem to say that if I buy a 89-91 I should only buy one that has had the top end rebuild.....I would really appreciate your thoughts on all this.

Thanks

 

Here are some recent pictures of the car I am looking at. Would appreciate constructive input on this.

Thanks..........

 

I think you should shoot for a 996..for around 22k you may even find a 2002 which has the bigger engine and 20 more HP, better Headlights, Wider rear than the 1999-2001 + better reliability...They are easier to work on, interior is updated, you wont feel like your in a 1980s film.. + you get alot for your money with the 996.

As for PPI, make sure you get a good PPI done, including checking engine compression..you can get a good PPI at an indy porsche shop, will be better than the dealer... and around $250 or less.

Good luck..either way you will love a Porsche!

 

Awesome that you're into this!

Read this, and then read it again: There is no such thing as a $20k 911.

Sure, you can buy a 911 for $20k or even a lot less, but to get it running perfectly consider these items that may need work:
-Engine (valves, valve chain, heads, gaskets, etc.)
-Brakes (pads, rotors, fluid, calipers)
-Lines (oil & fuel)
-Suspension (bushings & arms, etc.)
-Wheels & Tires
-HVAC (AC compressor, condenser, evaporator, lines, belts, heat exchangers, flapper valves, blowers, & vents)
-Stereo & Speakers
-Sunroof & Windows
-Weather stripping
-Paint & Trim
-Leather & Carpet
-Gauges & Seals
-Transmission & Clutch
-Seats & belts
-Lights, Lamps, Switches, Relays, and all other misc. electrical wiring

I bought one of the nicest, most thoroughly documented 911's around for $24k and immediately put $6k into to make it completely road-worthy. Another $5k, and countless hours of my personal labor, and it's Concours ready, almost. So I'm at $35k + months of my own work on a 1987 911 3.2 Carrera. Granted, it's Concours ready, as well as capable of any PCA DE Event, but still, the point it: slippery slope. Get in cheap, double it before you're done, then expect annual investment.

These cars need a budget of $2-3k per year to be maintained. That's just reality. It's a great passion, I say go for it, but know what you're getting into. I say this as a very capable DIY guy.
CATTMAN

 

I happen to like the 964 model series alot.
They represent, in my view, the first step up to a much more civilized car than the earlier series.
It is true that parts pricing for sigificant repairs has and continues to escalate quite uncomfortably.
It is also true that "routine" maintenance is more costly than the watercooled 996+ as the major services require somewhat pricey valve adjusts, not longer necessary on the newer cars. A major service typically runs about $1200 as opposed to $800-900 on a 996.
The principle concern with this particular car would be making certain that in the "Bottom engine rebuild and clutch in 2009." that the update to the cylinders was done properly to preclude their well documented propensity for serious leakage. A quick and dirty reseal is NOT a fix, howeve a properly updated engine would give you many years/miles of reasonably trouble free engine maintenance. To this end, I would request the documentation from that effort and carefully review w/ a knowledgeable guide whether ALL the necessary machinng and cylinder updates were performed. You should see a bill on the order of $10-$12K. If not-Be on guard.
Every Porsche series has it's quirks. The 996 advocated is plagued with RMS/IMS issues, which are not a total deterent, but still a significant issue to be conscious of.
As for the PPI, definitely get the leakdown and compression. If you want to save a little money and quite possibly get a better assessment contact the PCA Tech chair and ask him/her for a recommendation in your region for a solid independent repairer. Often times the dealers are populated by young pups educated on the newer cars without the "been there done that" ready knowledge of the quirks of the older series cars. It would also afford you the opportunity to estalish a relationship with that repairer for future.
As for the C4 vs C2: You will find that many folks, particularly those with an eye for the track will avoid the weight and disadvantages of the C4. However, from the sounds of it, your goal is weekend street, which unless you are really planning to be an overly aggressive driver, would not diminish your enjoyment.

 

try to summarize yoru posts

 

Of course-"try to summarize yoru posts" was much more helpful. Thanks for the contribution.

 

Was this in response to Farfinator's post? I was actually just thinking to myself that he had made the most well thought and helpful post in this thread so far.

 

I agree, especially in light of Tarek giving incorrect info regarding 996s.

 

I would recemond not buying a porsche that needs a lot of work done on it. you would end up putting more money into it and maybe not even getting around to fixing it.

 

Have the checked, PPI, by an independent garage. Find out what 'bottom engine rebuild' means. Havent heard of anyone doing bottom and not the top end. Make sure you do compression and leakdown tests.
964s are great cars.
dhc3

 

Take it to an air-cooled mechanic for a PPI. The 964 models (especially 1990) had soem prioblems with cylider heads and distributors.

I do not agree with "there are no $20K Porsches" as there are some good cars on the market but it depends on what you want to use it for. A 87-89 G50 car can be had for $20 K all day and they are great cars but the AC sucks. The 996 models are true GT cars but have IMS problems that are hit and miss.

 

I agree. The reason you want to use an indy mechanic that is familiar with the air cooled cars is that these cars are now 20+ years old. Many of the dealers have mechanics who are only slightly older than that, and are not skilled with the old cars, as dealers tend to service newer cars.
Many indy mechanics specialize in the older cars, as they have been servicing them since the cars were new.
I have a shop near my house that does race prep for ALMS type cars. When I contacted them regarding suspension work on my 87, they suggested they are not the most qualified shop to do that work, and steered me towards a smaller shop that specializes in the older cars. There is a similar shop near you.
Get to a local PCA event, and talk with some of the people who have older cars. They will be able to direct you to a good shop in your area.
dhc3

 

I would not recommend a 1990 C4 as a good candidate for the 964 series Porsche. The main reason is the 4-wheel drive train is very expensive to repair and is an early attempt to adapt 4 wheel drive technology from the 959 in a road Porsche. The subsequent viscous coupler which supercedes this early electronic multiclutch mechanism is much simpler and cheaper to repair if it ever even breaks. The best advice for buying a Porsche is to get the latest and best example you can afford as the engineers make running evolutionary improvements on the ever evolving 911 design with each newer iteration of their product. So 1990 as a model year was the beginning of the new design which has teething problems more than later model years. In addition to the afore-mentioned cylinder base to head oil leaks ( from not having any sealing gaskets machined into the case) there were flywheels failure, dual spark distributor belt breaking, and other issues. Adrian Streather' s 964 Companion book should be read as a source of research on which model will best serve your need in the future acquisition.

 

Thought about posting my opinions on this topic. I've owned 15 Porsches over the years, mostly 911s including 3 993s, so I think I could give a qualified response to the the OP.
But this thread is 2 months old and the OP has not responded to any of the posts so far. Why start a thread and then never come back? Unless he took the "advice" and bought an early 996 and now he doesn't want anything to do with this place!