I agree completely.

 

Share the love. Supercars aren't made to be hidden

 

I love Porsches but that kind of money, MC-12 all the way.

 

0-60 in 2.8, 0-100 in 6.0...

 

What a timely subject. I have a 2013 991 C4S and recently drove a 991 TTS launch vehicle at my local dealer, plus have been avidly researching the MP4-12C. And by avidly researching the 12C, I mean I have driven several 12C spyders at a McLaren track day at the COTA F1 track in Austin, TX several weeks ago as well 2 trips to the Dallas dealer along with lots of time talking to owners of the 12C.

First of all, the 12C and 991 TTS need to be driven on a track like COTA to really appreciate all that these cars can deliver. Unfortunately, I just have the 12C experience on a track, but having owned the 991 C4S and recently driven the new 991 TTS, I can say that the 991 TTS makes my C4S feel like a much older car. The handling and all-around performance of the 991 TTS is phenomenal. So much so that I wrote a friend that I wondered what kind of "voodoo" Porsche engineers had wrought on the TTS to make it handle so dramatically better than my 991 C4S.

I think Chris Harris had a similar experience:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=28588

Now, to address the topic of the thread, I think that you have to find the answers to several questions to determine which car is right for you. All the previous posts addressed most of those questions, but the main question is whether the severe depreciation of the 12C in 2012 form makes it a better car for the money than a brand-new 991 TTS.

I think McLaren has built something unique in the 12C that will cause it to appeal to a wider audience over time. The F1 technology brought into a production car in the use of hydraulic suspension and the CF tub with the aluminum front and rear bolted on is not really appreciated by many. The 625 h.p. turbo motor combined with 3 independent settings for chassis and drivetrain make the 12C the most comfortable car for those times you just need to get where you are going. Keep the chassis in normal and the drive train in "sport" or "track" and you have responsiveness you'll need not to fall asleep as the chassis absorbs all the irregularities of the road. Set chassis and drivetrain on "track" and can take on any track day competition out there. You also have the ability to control the sounds from the exhaust that come into the cabin, so wake up your aural self when needed and quiet things down when needed.

Again, referring to one of the best auto journalists, Chris Harris, his time with the 12C is remarkable in how many questions it answers.


So, it really gets down to which boxes you check off in your search. If you go the way of the depreciated 12C, just make sure you do a thorough check of the car, from paint to electrical/nav/radio, etc and get a service history of the car along with understanding all that it will take in getting it to your nearest dealer for servicing.

If you opt for the 991 TTS, you will be getting a tremendously advanced evolution of the 911 platform, but be prepared to install all the radar/laser countermeasures you can, because it will take all the self-control you can muster to not be above the posted limits all the time. I had a hard time not driving at 90 and above with the slightest nod to forced induction.

 

+1. Well said

 

cant compare since p is daily drivable and macca is not. high door sill makes macca a special occasion car only. its impossible (like a lotus elise) to climb in and out of. maybe a spider and leave roof down makes it easier.

other issue is subjective but scissor doors are embarrassing to me.

 

I find the McLaren difficult to get in and out of. Plus the swinging doors are cool, but not practical if use the car rather often. Lastly, there are only a selected places for service. That all said, the McLaren is really a great car. For me, I would go with the 458.

 

I agree with your "high door sill" observation, fcar, but for guys or gals in reasonably good shape, the wide door sill is no harder to surmount than the 911, it just lets you know you're getting into a different from normal car. I guess after explaining a few dozen times to occupants that it has to do with the carbon fiber tub and how strong and light-weight the CF design is, it might get tiresome, but as far as it not being a good dd car, I know some owners that would disagree. I guess it all depends on your requirements for a dd. I use my Cayenne GTS for nearly all other driving that doesn't include just me or my wife or more than a day or two of overnight travel. My wife drives an A8L, and she loves it with all the room, but mostly because it's smooth and quiet and fits her requirements being a 4-door and able to transport her elderly, handicapped parents.

I love my 991 4CS for all the usual reasons, but it's only after getting some time with the 12C spyder that I came to appreciate the qualities it offers. Is a new 12C twice as good as my $135k 4CS, assuming you would spend at least $270-325k for the 12C? Probably not, but then I now have to consider whether my car, plus $50-90k more, is worth it to me to trade in for a new 991 TTS, or whether to consider a depreciated 2012 model 12C for the same deal.

The more analytical your bent, the harder it is to make a decision like that because I find my left brain being overpowered by the right, or whatever part of me that loves the aesthetics of the 12C. F1 engineering plus exotic styling is the draw of the 12C. 50+ years of Porsche engineering focused on improving the 911, plus an established dealer network, is the draw of the 991 TTS.

 

Does anyone know whats wrong with mp4-12c prices ? Are they very unreliable ? For example there are 12c at mobile.de at 160k euro my2013 and 3k-5k km ?

 

pick one

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...eatures=EXPORT

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat...xMileage=10000

 

Supply and demand along with many 1st time buyers thinking the 12C might appreciate like the F1, which, of course, it did not, combined with the facts that it just didn't fit their needs after ownership, all contributed to severe depreciation. When the P13 comes out under $200k, it could further erode 12C values for the 2012-14 model years. P1 buyers have been enthusiastic in their descriptions of the new model after getting wheel time and hot laps with pro drivers, and all are 12C owners. They report wanting to keep their 12C's, but time will tell.

I expect 12C prices on the used market to fall further, but probably base in the $150k area, just going off what the cars are bringing on wholesale auctions, until the P13 comes out.

 

12C depreciation isn't far off from Lamborghini's... You can get a used $280k MSRP 12C for $200k, maybe a bit less, and same goes for an LP570..... most people don't pay MSRP for them anyways...

 

Seems to be no bottom for Porsche 996 turbos, so I don't think the 991 will be any different. The McLaren has taken a big hit as the 2012's are 200K but can it dive down alot more?