Engineering has killed the 911
#31
10-12-2011, 07:06 AM
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I bought the 997.2 for it's timeless shape, build quality, reliability, brakes, steering response. I am a novice driver, don't drift/fishtail and have no plans to buy a lexus ever.
#32
10-12-2011, 11:04 AM
#34
10-13-2011, 09:51 AM
If you read this article, the author asked Walter to slide the car. Walter then had a smile on his face before attempting to slide it only to find out it wouldn't slide. He then said something along the lines of "this can't be right?". I know the majority of drivers won't drive like sir Walter but we all get frisky once in a while. I totally understand the biz is biz concept and we have to compete. But just remember the old timers who got you there where you are today and respect the past. Newer is not always better. Porsche has enough touring cars, Panamera, Cayenne, 911 Turbo. Why feel the need to make all of them touring? I bet the majority of buyers nowadays are even choosing automatic over stick.
#35
10-13-2011, 10:05 AM
If you read this article, the author asked Walter to slide the car. Walter then had a smile on his face before attempting to slide it only to find out it wouldn't slide. He then said something along the lines of "this can't be right?". I know the majority of drivers won't drive like sir Walter but we all get frisky once in a while. I totally understand the biz is biz concept and we have to compete. But just remember the old timers who got you there where you are today and respect the past. Newer is not always better. Porsche has enough touring cars, Panamera, Cayenne, 911 Turbo. Why feel the need to make all of them touring? I bet the majority of buyers nowadays are even choosing automatic over stick.
Engineering is what made the 911 great in the first place... Now it's great-er.
It's not engineering, it's sales. Engineering never makes things worse, it's the choice of technologies chosen for a certain model to appeal to a certain buyer. Porsche made the choice to appeal to the majority of its future clients. Why would Porsche care about people who have had a 911 for 20 years? What have they done for Porsche lately?
#37
10-13-2011, 10:09 AM
If you read this article, the author asked Walter to slide the car. Walter then had a smile on his face before attempting to slide it only to find out it wouldn't slide. He then said something along the lines of "this can't be right?". I know the majority of drivers won't drive like sir Walter but we all get frisky once in a while. I totally understand the biz is biz concept and we have to compete. But just remember the old timers who got you there where you are today and respect the past. Newer is not always better. Porsche has enough touring cars, Panamera, Cayenne, 911 Turbo. Why feel the need to make all of them touring? I bet the majority of buyers nowadays are even choosing automatic over stick.
it´s just more precise, focused, clinical and less tricky, less capricious and easier to handle.
#38
10-13-2011, 12:45 PM
It is real quite simple, at least in my opinion. If Porsche had the luxury of building the cars it wanted for the true Porsche enthusiast you would still see 964s and 993s on the showroom floor. Disagree with me? Go price a used 996 Turbo versus a used 993 Turbo. The point is they have built a very successful business based on their ability to maintain the Porsche feeling while catering to the masses. The majority of their potential customers want air conditioning that works, a great stereo, decent fuel economy, and all of the other creature comforts they can get elsewhere. Even with the compromise it is still a Porsche.
#39
10-13-2011, 01:03 PM
It is real quite simple, at least in my opinion. If Porsche had the luxury of building the cars it wanted for the true Porsche enthusiast you would still see 964s and 993s on the showroom floor. Disagree with me? Go price a used 996 Turbo versus a used 993 Turbo. The point is they have built a very successful business based on their ability to maintain the Porsche feeling while catering to the masses. The majority of their potential customers want air conditioning that works, a great stereo, decent fuel economy, and all of the other creature comforts they can get elsewhere. Even with the compromise it is still a Porsche.
#40
10-13-2011, 03:29 PM
It is real quite simple, at least in my opinion. If Porsche had the luxury of building the cars it wanted for the true Porsche enthusiast you would still see 964s and 993s on the showroom floor. Disagree with me? Go price a used 996 Turbo versus a used 993 Turbo. The point is they have built a very successful business based on their ability to maintain the Porsche feeling while catering to the masses. The majority of their potential customers want air conditioning that works, a great stereo, decent fuel economy, and all of the other creature comforts they can get elsewhere. Even with the compromise it is still a Porsche.
993 Turbos are more expensive than 996 Turbos because 993s were produced in MUCH smaller numbers than the 996s not because they are better cars! It is simply a supply issue in the demand supply equation. When the 993 was in production, Porsche as a company was on its knees and very near bankruptcy and not many people wanted to buy Porsches! The 996 had wider appeal so it sold better. Porsche still makes the cars they want. The evidence is in the Nurburgring times of every successive model they build!
#41
10-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Absolutely agree! The 991 is faster than every comparable Porsche before it! Meaning C2 to C2 or C2S to C2S etc. I cannot wait for the 991 Turbo!
#42
10-13-2011, 04:07 PM
I think Porsche still builds the cars it wants! The 996 GT3, 997 GT3RS, 997 GT2RS etc. etc. I think people confuse "nostalgia" with "better." Nobody forced Porsche to go to a liquid cooled engine in the 996. They went to it because in engineering terms, they could not develop the aircooled technology anymore! They had switched to liquid cooling in their race cars long before the 996 was introduced to the public because air cooling is not efficient and would not work as well the power levels of the engines increased.
993 Turbos are more expensive than 996 Turbos because 993s were produced in MUCH smaller numbers than the 996s not because they are better cars! It is simply a supply issue in the demand supply equation. When the 993 was in production, Porsche as a company was on its knees and very near bankruptcy and not many people wanted to buy Porsches! The 996 had wider appeal so it sold better. Porsche still makes the cars they want. The evidence is in the Nurburgring times of every successive model they build!
993 Turbos are more expensive than 996 Turbos because 993s were produced in MUCH smaller numbers than the 996s not because they are better cars! It is simply a supply issue in the demand supply equation. When the 993 was in production, Porsche as a company was on its knees and very near bankruptcy and not many people wanted to buy Porsches! The 996 had wider appeal so it sold better. Porsche still makes the cars they want. The evidence is in the Nurburgring times of every successive model they build!
#43
10-13-2011, 05:47 PM
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from what i have read and seen so far i get into impression that new 991 model will join gt-r and r8 cars in the same class of non-servicable (in DIY terms) computer-controlled marvels. an average driver will get much faster in that car, advanced driver most likely will be dissapointed.
i am waiting to see what 991 gt3 and 991 cup cars will look like. then we will decide what to do.
with very good probability current 997.2 gt3 rs and gts cars will probably hold their value for long long time - driven mostly by simplicity of components and availability of cheap clutch replacement kits, relatively servicable gearbox, motor, etc. time will show.
i am waiting to see what 991 gt3 and 991 cup cars will look like. then we will decide what to do.
with very good probability current 997.2 gt3 rs and gts cars will probably hold their value for long long time - driven mostly by simplicity of components and availability of cheap clutch replacement kits, relatively servicable gearbox, motor, etc. time will show.
It is still true.