Engineering has killed the 911
#46
10-13-2011, 09:55 PM
Anyone who has fallen in love with the 911 knows the reason they love it is because of it's ability to oversteer. Sliding the rear out almost anytime is why we love the 911. It's never been about being the fastest, most stable car around. This new 991 looks like a 911, but according to Motor Trend, Walter could not slide the car when he tried. My opinion is when I see what has been done to the 911, I feel like something has died. From the slant of the windshield, the pop up tail, the larger size, the change in wheelbase to make the engine less rear. And you have to live with this blastemy for the next 14 years. This platform will benefit the turbo in a big way but does it flat out suck. It's just my opinion.
#47
10-18-2011, 01:05 PM
They are targeting BMW, Mercedes, Audi folks
My take is that Porsche has decided that they have the marque alpha's already and that the brand can afford to stretch itself in order to grow it's constituency. Look at the TV spots they are running. A mom picking up kids at school in a yellow Turbo. A slightly chubby, prematurely balding middle aged, middle executive gets in his GTS in the parking garage, gives it a blip and smiles.
Not hard core Porsche folk at all! Then, you look at the interior of the 991. It is clearly a Panamera inspired layout. It looks more like an LS Lexus then a Porsche. A Porsche interior, IMHO, should be utilitarian and well crafted.
That is where they are going....to grow the brand at some risk of losing the soul of the car....a drivers car. That is why I opted not to wait and picked up a 997.2 Turbo.
Not hard core Porsche folk at all! Then, you look at the interior of the 991. It is clearly a Panamera inspired layout. It looks more like an LS Lexus then a Porsche. A Porsche interior, IMHO, should be utilitarian and well crafted.
That is where they are going....to grow the brand at some risk of losing the soul of the car....a drivers car. That is why I opted not to wait and picked up a 997.2 Turbo.
#48
10-18-2011, 01:36 PM
What makes Porsche special, and different than every other company out there, is that they will continue to cater models to various niches. How many 911s are there currently? 25? That trend will no doubt continue, so the hard-core fans can continue to enjoy some hard-core iterations of the same concept.
As for the interior, I've always been a gadget guy ... the more buttons, the better, so long as they serve a functional purpose. I love the new interior, Porsche is approaching Audi in terms of not only quality, but ergonomics and just plain good looks. Seen the new 5-series or 3-series BMWs? The interiors are just awful. MB interiors may use quality materials, but they're just blah.
To each his own.
As for the interior, I've always been a gadget guy ... the more buttons, the better, so long as they serve a functional purpose. I love the new interior, Porsche is approaching Audi in terms of not only quality, but ergonomics and just plain good looks. Seen the new 5-series or 3-series BMWs? The interiors are just awful. MB interiors may use quality materials, but they're just blah.
To each his own.
#49
10-18-2011, 04:13 PM
At the Rennsport Reunion, in response to a question about electric cars, the President of Porsche NA stated that Porsche is out in front on the latest technology (such as electric cars). However, he also said that they would never compromise looks, performance, driving feel and the SOUND of a Porsche. I'm thinking -- speakers and recorded engine sounds? 
#50
10-18-2011, 04:34 PM
Anyone who has fallen in love with the 911 knows the reason they love it is because of it's ability to oversteer. Sliding the rear out almost anytime is why we love the 911. It's never been about being the fastest, most stable car around. This new 991 looks like a 911, but according to Motor Trend, Walter could not slide the car when he tried. My opinion is when I see what has been done to the 911, I feel like something has died. From the slant of the windshield, the pop up tail, the larger size, the change in wheelbase to make the engine less rear. And you have to live with this blastemy for the next 14 years. This platform will benefit the turbo in a big way but does it flat out suck. It's just my opinion.
#51
10-18-2011, 05:44 PM
At the Rennsport Reunion, in response to a question about electric cars, the President of Porsche NA stated that Porsche is out in front on the latest technology (such as electric cars). However, he also said that they would never compromise looks, performance, driving feel and the SOUND of a Porsche. I'm thinking -- speakers and recorded engine sounds?
#52
10-19-2011, 08:35 AM
I see a lot of users saying Porsche is only doing what it takes to survive (Porsche was banking before Wendel decided to take over the world). Changes to the 911 is for marketing and to cater to the masses. This is some bandwagon thinking because Porsche is a very stuborn company when it comes to changes. When have they used aluminum vs steel and how does that affect logevity? Porsche = small subtle changes. A revamp of their traditional icon is the influence of VW. Say what you want but the last 911 I buy is a 997 because I know this was truly the last car Porsche engineered without influence. It's just my opinion but a 911 with a panamera interior, panamera wing, panamera windshield and longer wheelbase is simply a panamera coupe. As a 911 fan for basically his whole life, I'm without words and will gag everytime I see a VW Panamera coupe. That's just my opinion so I hope not to offend anyone.
#54
10-19-2011, 08:54 PM
WOW. Imagine what we'll think once we actually get to see the cars in person. I seem to remember these same kinds of discussions from 993 to 996 to 997. 996 over time has proven to be one of Porsche's finest models and the 997 was an improvement over that.
Making their cars better is what I have come to expect from Porsche and if that means a car that is a little better balanced and less tail happy I am ok with that. From what I have seen of the numbers so far this looks to be one of the best performing models yet. Does a car really have to be difficult to drive for it to be "pure" or a "real" Porsche?
A better handling, faster, more comfortable, nicer appointed Porsche. Sounds terrible.? We will all get to vote with our $'s. Porsche knows that and has a good batting average so far. I for one will keep an open mind. I'm driving my 7th P car looking for #8.
JS
Making their cars better is what I have come to expect from Porsche and if that means a car that is a little better balanced and less tail happy I am ok with that. From what I have seen of the numbers so far this looks to be one of the best performing models yet. Does a car really have to be difficult to drive for it to be "pure" or a "real" Porsche?
A better handling, faster, more comfortable, nicer appointed Porsche. Sounds terrible.? We will all get to vote with our $'s. Porsche knows that and has a good batting average so far. I for one will keep an open mind. I'm driving my 7th P car looking for #8.
JS
#55
10-20-2011, 12:48 AM
The new 991
I am quite confident that the new 911 will be even more civilised than the outgoing 997. Perhaps the shape and larger size will take getting used to as with other new entrants. However I do not think that taking so much of the Panamera Style for the ****pit is a good thing. This is a huge move away from the 911 DNA which is upright, classic, and does the business. The sloping gear shifter tunnel area robs space and looks fussy and out of sync with the overall car. Good luck. Also the car growing in size is testimony to the design team loving the Panamera and infecting the ICON 911. Cheers...
#56
10-20-2011, 05:25 AM
Maybe we are missing Porsches 20 year plan...
What if they are making this car larger and more comfortable (which I prefer), paving the way for the niche of a smaller car again?
(BMW 1-series anyone?)
Of course this is a joke, but seriously - if enough people generate interest (and vote with their wallets (as Jersey Shore stated), then there will be a car that we all want.
What if they are making this car larger and more comfortable (which I prefer), paving the way for the niche of a smaller car again?
(BMW 1-series anyone?)
Of course this is a joke, but seriously - if enough people generate interest (and vote with their wallets (as Jersey Shore stated), then there will be a car that we all want.
#57
10-20-2011, 08:05 AM
I am quite confident that the new 911 will be even more civilised than the outgoing 997. Perhaps the shape and larger size will take getting used to as with other new entrants. However I do not think that taking so much of the Panamera Style for the ****pit is a good thing. This is a huge move away from the 911 DNA which is upright, classic, and does the business. The sloping gear shifter tunnel area robs space and looks fussy and out of sync with the overall car. Good luck. Also the car growing in size is testimony to the design team loving the Panamera and infecting the ICON 911. Cheers...
The Panamera is the first car that took this design cue, the new Cayenne was 2nd and now it is a feature in the 991.
Other than that the 991 ****pit is still a 911. gauges, ignition, are vent placement etc. even the chrono clock and the cup holders are where they have always been, it just comes with more buttons, gizmos and more luxury.
P.S. the larger wheelbase is a necessity to fit the upcoming hyrid powertrain.
P.S2. welcome to 6speed
Last edited by catchmyshadow; 10-20-2011 at 08:34 AM.
#58
10-20-2011, 11:13 AM
Registered User
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I'm having a hard time blasting Porsche for anything until I've actually seen and driven the car myself.
But... I bought (and loved) my 997S for steering feel, brakes, build quality, design and then acceleration (in that order). I'm frankly more concerned with the switch to electric steering than anything else. I can't see how you can't slide the rear end of the car around with PSM switched off and since I haven't seen the article that was orignially referenced I'm guessing that Herr Rohl had the PSM on.
Be that as it may, Porsche is in business to make a profit first and foremost. Even before making great cars. And if the majority of buyers want a slightly larger, slightly more comfortable, and safer car to drive... you can't argue with that can you?
And for the record, I really like the pictures I've seen of the 991 EXCEPT for all the additional script on the back end.
But... I bought (and loved) my 997S for steering feel, brakes, build quality, design and then acceleration (in that order). I'm frankly more concerned with the switch to electric steering than anything else. I can't see how you can't slide the rear end of the car around with PSM switched off and since I haven't seen the article that was orignially referenced I'm guessing that Herr Rohl had the PSM on.
Be that as it may, Porsche is in business to make a profit first and foremost. Even before making great cars. And if the majority of buyers want a slightly larger, slightly more comfortable, and safer car to drive... you can't argue with that can you?
And for the record, I really like the pictures I've seen of the 991 EXCEPT for all the additional script on the back end.
#59
10-20-2011, 04:41 PM
I do agree that Porsche generally does what they really believe is best for their cars and their customers. They are smart enough to to follow the money. I for one will wait to see and drive the 991 turbo and GT3 before I cast any real judgement.
JS.
Last edited by Jersey Shore; 10-20-2011 at 04:45 PM.
#60
10-20-2011, 04:48 PM
a new, sub cayman/boxster model, codenamed 551 is already on the way.
and i am sure it is not the last small(er) model:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...announced.html
and i am sure it is not the last small(er) model:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...announced.html