Porsche has 'overwhelming' orders for revamped 911
#17
12-09-2011 | 09:25 AM
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 51
From: 3.8 RS
Rep Power: 21
If you're unamused by a wall of words, skip this post, thanks.
Thanks for the link to the Detroit News -- surprising, since new models tend to get the early adopter, but not the bulk of "overwhelming" interest. Perhaps any number looks overwhelming compared to 997 sales ... : )
But your real flash is the comparison of war spending with consequences such as education and national advances. This arguably the most thought provoking thread in a car forum in quite some time!
How can one keep "politics" off threads? Thought police? Wouldn't that, ironically, be an intrusive governmental imposition on the rights and freedoms of the individual? Not every politicial thread has to be ejected to the "off topic" forums -- especially when government corruption is the central topic to life in the USA at least through the 2012 Presidential election.
Also the US Constitution does not allow for the initiation of war without declaration, so Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and before them, Iraq the first time, Vietnam, etc. ... all unlawful and not budgeted. If there is a declared war, the people pay for it with war bonds, not banks printed paper currency and lending from China. The Constitution also explicitly calls for no military interests to be maintained outside the borders, so the 100's of military permanent bases are against the Constitution, as is the TSA and the "Patriot Act" in terms of its surveillance and unlimited detention, "extraordinary rendition" and the well-documented clandestine war crimes of the CIA. The USA should have embassies in many nations for trade and diplomatic relations, not a sprawling military empire. Other than that, why does the USA need to be 10 tens the military might of the rest of the world combined? Strategic advantage? In a world that hasn't seen declared war in half a century?
I tend to agree that budget is important, but sadly, as with health care, transportation and essential services (disaster and emergency agencies, fight fighters, etc.) the USA spends big, but the big spending goes to corporations, not citizens and the spending on education just doesn't show competitive results, let alone improvements in the standard of living. So budget really isn't the problem, it's efficacy and that is the symptom of corruption and a failed system. I think Congressman Ron Paul has some interesting observations here -- I don't agree with all his politics, but I think he's been on the right solutions for a couple of decades now and his cries of alarm have fallen on deaf ears until as recently as his 2008 campaign. I hope his 2012 luck (and ours) is better.
Interesting points on unplanned and unchecked spending -- that's the crux of the problem. A lack of well run government spending is the root of corruption and it's the governmental "institutionalized" corruption (such as allowing corporate funding of political campaigns, allowing giant lobby groups, allowing insider trading in Congress, so many, too many to list here.)
Still, if the USA did away with the USPS, it would be the only developed country in the world to not have a postal system (this includes some third world countries.) There are economic necessities and issues of standards of living that support the need for a postal service. Much as I loathe the sight of a slow moving postal worker, the solution is not to throw the country open to UPS and Fedex, etc. The solution for primary services and essential services in government is to make those departments function properly, not to burn the house down. People on very low income should not be required to pay "fair market" prices for posting correspondence. If all postal services were "free market" the USA has already thoroughly its government incapable of regulating these sorts of markets and the consumer is the one most likely to be injured in such an experiment.
I ordered the 991, arriving in January and "embargoed" until the Feb 4th launch, but I'll be trying to get the dealer to let me take an extended "demo" drive the moment it arrives. I'm still more impressed by the 997 in RS 4.0 form or "GTS" form (though I dislike the abuse of the history of that name, but there it is.) I'll have the good fortune to have a 3.8 RS in the garage as the reference point for the 991 and I might well end up with the 4.0 RS replacing the 3.8, so the 991 will have big shoes to fill. Still there will be no replacing the Mezger heart of the car, nor the fundamentally flawed but near perfect rear engine geometry. Hopefully the 991 will win us all over. I think the Porsche marketing and positioning as a "GT" has been dead wrong and the car itself, now that I've experienced it (not yet driven it) first hand, I think the reviews by Chris Harris (videos on YouTube) are an exciting proposition for the next car. Will it ever really be a 911? I have doubts.
I apologize once again to those who can't stand a wall of words, but found their way to this last brick. Two thought-provoking topics for me. Here's to a great 911 and a great 2012 President of the USA. I'm optimistic on both counts.
Detroit News:
"Porsche AG said it has received "overwhelming" orders in Germany for the revamped 911 sports car two days before the 88,000-euro ($119,000) model goes on sale in Europe."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111201/AUTO01/112010439/1361/Porsche-has--overwhelming--orders-for-$119-000-revamped-911
(Of course a country that doesn't waste their resources on a military can have great schools and turn out great engineers which in turn create great products like Porsche - and great design philosophy like minimalistic Bauhaus)
"Porsche AG said it has received "overwhelming" orders in Germany for the revamped 911 sports car two days before the 88,000-euro ($119,000) model goes on sale in Europe."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20111201/AUTO01/112010439/1361/Porsche-has--overwhelming--orders-for-$119-000-revamped-911
(Of course a country that doesn't waste their resources on a military can have great schools and turn out great engineers which in turn create great products like Porsche - and great design philosophy like minimalistic Bauhaus)
But your real flash is the comparison of war spending with consequences such as education and national advances. This arguably the most thought provoking thread in a car forum in quite some time!
Gee, last time I checked, spending on national defense is provided for in the Constitution, unlike all the myriad other wasteful, inefficient, and ineffective wealth transfer programs and massive bureaucracies into which our private porperty, and that of unborn generations, are poured into.
When nanny-government promises you cradle to grave benefits, why bother to undertake the hard work to become an automobile engineer?
A tit for tat........now please keep politics off these threads.
When nanny-government promises you cradle to grave benefits, why bother to undertake the hard work to become an automobile engineer?
A tit for tat........now please keep politics off these threads.
Also the US Constitution does not allow for the initiation of war without declaration, so Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and before them, Iraq the first time, Vietnam, etc. ... all unlawful and not budgeted. If there is a declared war, the people pay for it with war bonds, not banks printed paper currency and lending from China. The Constitution also explicitly calls for no military interests to be maintained outside the borders, so the 100's of military permanent bases are against the Constitution, as is the TSA and the "Patriot Act" in terms of its surveillance and unlimited detention, "extraordinary rendition" and the well-documented clandestine war crimes of the CIA. The USA should have embassies in many nations for trade and diplomatic relations, not a sprawling military empire. Other than that, why does the USA need to be 10 tens the military might of the rest of the world combined? Strategic advantage? In a world that hasn't seen declared war in half a century?
Moderators, please delete this comment if you think others will find it offensive or flame provoking. I've tried to not take sides or be inflammatory.
Not sure why but your statement rattled around in my head for a bit, EricP. So, I did some quick research and found that data concerning the actual percentage of GDP spent on education in the U.S. (and other countries) varies wildly by source (who woulda thunk it, huh?). However, the sources I could find that compared G-8 countries and their spending by category agreed that the U.S. spends a higher percentage of GDP than other G-8 countries, Germany included. Needless to say, this was a small sampling and I did not exhaust all evenues of research, just a quick look.
For example, from page V of the summary contained within the Nation Center for Education Statistics' "Comparative Indicators of Education in the United States and Other G-8 Countries":
"Considering education expenditure at all levels combined, the United States spent a higher percentage of its GDP on education (7 percent) than did any of the other G-8 countries (indicator 16)."
Additional information about expenditures can be found on page 45 of this report. This is not to say that we don't spend too much money on military efforts or that we spend too much on education. Merely that we spend more than most other countries on education as a whole. One needs also to keep in mind that this report came out of the U.S.
In all, there doesn't seem to be a lack of funds going into the educational system in the U.S., at least from a comparative standpoint. This would indicate to me that the way the funds are being used is the next logical place to look if one believes that the education in the U.S. isn't up to par.
Interestingly enough, several studies found that some countries you would not think spent as much on education were in fact spending far more than others. Mexico, for instance was consistently highlighted as one country that spent far more than most on education; as much as 17% of GDP according to one source.
OK, I'm going to put my research beenie away now and go back to thinking about an exhaust and ECU tune for my car.
Cheers,
Mike
Not sure why but your statement rattled around in my head for a bit, EricP. So, I did some quick research and found that data concerning the actual percentage of GDP spent on education in the U.S. (and other countries) varies wildly by source (who woulda thunk it, huh?). However, the sources I could find that compared G-8 countries and their spending by category agreed that the U.S. spends a higher percentage of GDP than other G-8 countries, Germany included. Needless to say, this was a small sampling and I did not exhaust all evenues of research, just a quick look.
For example, from page V of the summary contained within the Nation Center for Education Statistics' "Comparative Indicators of Education in the United States and Other G-8 Countries":
"Considering education expenditure at all levels combined, the United States spent a higher percentage of its GDP on education (7 percent) than did any of the other G-8 countries (indicator 16)."
Additional information about expenditures can be found on page 45 of this report. This is not to say that we don't spend too much money on military efforts or that we spend too much on education. Merely that we spend more than most other countries on education as a whole. One needs also to keep in mind that this report came out of the U.S.
In all, there doesn't seem to be a lack of funds going into the educational system in the U.S., at least from a comparative standpoint. This would indicate to me that the way the funds are being used is the next logical place to look if one believes that the education in the U.S. isn't up to par.
Interestingly enough, several studies found that some countries you would not think spent as much on education were in fact spending far more than others. Mexico, for instance was consistently highlighted as one country that spent far more than most on education; as much as 17% of GDP according to one source.
OK, I'm going to put my research beenie away now and go back to thinking about an exhaust and ECU tune for my car.
Cheers,
Mike
I'm glad you posted this - no offense at all and good info. First on the Mexico thing - they might spend a larger percentage of their GDP on education but their GDP (while I don't feel like researching it) is not huge. GDP/GNP doesn't include foreign aid.
On the US thing - You're right - they way the money is spent is probably the leak - because there are schools in my inner city with 35-40 kids per class. Proven ideal teacher/student ratios are 11:1. But there was a huge bailout recently and I don't know about your city, but we have about 20 "bridge to nowhere" projects going on. "Dig a hole and fill it up for a paycheck". Why didn't this go to education? Schools are really good at spending $ frugally (once it actually gets to the hands of the school). They are used to watering it down and spreading it around. Imagine what $200B would do for the US school system. That still leave $500B for the "other" projects.
I feel we are a wealthy enough country that our k-12 institutions should rival the science and technological centers of M.I.T. - and our arts programs in K-12 rival that of Julliard. I don't know why it's not. I'm not a proponent of a socialist welfare state - Heck I think the postal system should go away or be stripped to the bone.
But education is paramount. Ask the public about health care and welfare/bailouts and you'll get polarizing points of view. ASK ANYONE, liberal or conservative minded if they want the best possible schools for their children and they will all be in agreement.
Imagine what our country would be like 20 years from now if starting tomorrow every child, yours and mine, went through a school like the Tiger Woods Learning Center or MIT. FULLY FUNDED.
Ok, cheers. I gotta pick a color by tomorrow or lose a month on my car build date. Grrr..
On the US thing - You're right - they way the money is spent is probably the leak - because there are schools in my inner city with 35-40 kids per class. Proven ideal teacher/student ratios are 11:1. But there was a huge bailout recently and I don't know about your city, but we have about 20 "bridge to nowhere" projects going on. "Dig a hole and fill it up for a paycheck". Why didn't this go to education? Schools are really good at spending $ frugally (once it actually gets to the hands of the school). They are used to watering it down and spreading it around. Imagine what $200B would do for the US school system. That still leave $500B for the "other" projects.
I feel we are a wealthy enough country that our k-12 institutions should rival the science and technological centers of M.I.T. - and our arts programs in K-12 rival that of Julliard. I don't know why it's not. I'm not a proponent of a socialist welfare state - Heck I think the postal system should go away or be stripped to the bone.
But education is paramount. Ask the public about health care and welfare/bailouts and you'll get polarizing points of view. ASK ANYONE, liberal or conservative minded if they want the best possible schools for their children and they will all be in agreement.
Imagine what our country would be like 20 years from now if starting tomorrow every child, yours and mine, went through a school like the Tiger Woods Learning Center or MIT. FULLY FUNDED.
Ok, cheers. I gotta pick a color by tomorrow or lose a month on my car build date. Grrr..
Still, if the USA did away with the USPS, it would be the only developed country in the world to not have a postal system (this includes some third world countries.) There are economic necessities and issues of standards of living that support the need for a postal service. Much as I loathe the sight of a slow moving postal worker, the solution is not to throw the country open to UPS and Fedex, etc. The solution for primary services and essential services in government is to make those departments function properly, not to burn the house down. People on very low income should not be required to pay "fair market" prices for posting correspondence. If all postal services were "free market" the USA has already thoroughly its government incapable of regulating these sorts of markets and the consumer is the one most likely to be injured in such an experiment.
Of course they have overwhelming orders. The car is and has always been awesome. The sales process has become easier over the years. I will also know with one hundred percent certainty that when I take delivery I will own a Porsche. I will probably lose 10 percent a year for the first few years but the sound of the engine will produce a smile like no other. I guess I could leave the money in the bank or stock market and trust the politicians to have my best interest at heart. I'LL TAKE THE PORSCHE!!!!
I ordered the 991, arriving in January and "embargoed" until the Feb 4th launch, but I'll be trying to get the dealer to let me take an extended "demo" drive the moment it arrives. I'm still more impressed by the 997 in RS 4.0 form or "GTS" form (though I dislike the abuse of the history of that name, but there it is.) I'll have the good fortune to have a 3.8 RS in the garage as the reference point for the 991 and I might well end up with the 4.0 RS replacing the 3.8, so the 991 will have big shoes to fill. Still there will be no replacing the Mezger heart of the car, nor the fundamentally flawed but near perfect rear engine geometry. Hopefully the 991 will win us all over. I think the Porsche marketing and positioning as a "GT" has been dead wrong and the car itself, now that I've experienced it (not yet driven it) first hand, I think the reviews by Chris Harris (videos on YouTube) are an exciting proposition for the next car. Will it ever really be a 911? I have doubts.
I apologize once again to those who can't stand a wall of words, but found their way to this last brick. Two thought-provoking topics for me. Here's to a great 911 and a great 2012 President of the USA. I'm optimistic on both counts.
#18
12-09-2011 | 09:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 168
From: Sunny South Florida
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I really enjoyed going to the porsche site and building it custom. I saved it down to a pdf file on my desktop. I emailed the file to my sales guy and he suggested a few changes. I gave him my amex card and I was done. I never left my desk and I loved it.
#19
12-11-2011 | 05:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 597
From: KY
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I could tell - trust me - conservative here. My only social agenda is that we should pump billions into schools (your children and mine) and let our new UBER-educated future leaders run a proper country. Not healthcare, not GM bailouts, not BS. That massive infrastructure bailout should have been evenly distributed throughout our kids schools.
Cheers. On that note I need to pick a 991 color and it's driving me bananas.
Cheers. On that note I need to pick a 991 color and it's driving me bananas.
J
#21
12-16-2011 | 03:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,202
From: Moorestown, NJ
Rep Power: 261
+1 on that!!!
JB
#22
12-16-2011 | 04:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,153
Rep Power: 196
I could tell - trust me - conservative here. My only social agenda is that we should pump billions into schools (your children and mine) and let our new UBER-educated future leaders run a proper country. Not healthcare, not GM bailouts, not BS. That massive infrastructure bailout should have been evenly distributed throughout our kids schools.
Cheers. On that note I need to pick a 991 color and it's driving me bananas.
Cheers. On that note I need to pick a 991 color and it's driving me bananas.
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