Deposit on 991 GT3
#46
03-12-2012, 08:49 PM
yeah, maybe. but consider that the 991S is far behind in any straight line run. the 0-100 and beyond times are still far apart. of course, it may run one lap with a similar time to the .2 3 at the ring, but it won't repeat that as many times as the gt3. the brakes are still too small and the suspension is not up to gt3 task. And, the cost of a 991S equipped to handle that well is more than the .2 gt3.
with that said, i expect the 991 gt3 to be a monster with a monster price tag.
with that said, i expect the 991 gt3 to be a monster with a monster price tag.
#52
03-14-2012, 11:54 AM
[quote=speed21;3481815][quote]
Haven't heard Porsche say that, and going by the numbers between these 2 cars, the 0 to 100 times don't suggest there is any notable difference.
The head Porsche rep from HQ at the release night said 991 ring times are very consistent (vs GT3 .2). These guys hold a level of dialogue with PAG and have all been over there recently, also participating in the camps at iceland where they drive and marvel the accomplishments of the new car. The GT3 has bigger brakes and is a more track focused car but the newer 991 chassis platform has levelled out any advantage the 3 had with its own special suspension and lighter chassis. 991S is certainly not to be underestimated.
The recent clip here showing the 991S stride away from 997S.2 is evidence the new 991 is more than just a pretty face.
I haven't heard that either although there (may) be something in it if you were using the manual 991S. Can you link a reference from Porsche?...or a test that has been conducted to confirm what you are saying here?
Haven't heard of that either. Again if you could link the reference from Porsche where they say rear seats are not advised or unable to be fitted into a GT3.2, or earlier GT car, that would confirm your advice on that.
My investigating the possibilities of fitting rear seats into a GT3 with Porsche technical HQ (Aus) confirmed that the car can take the rear seats and is legal where fitted and DOT approved by an approved engineer. Porsche themselves just don't/won't do it because it defeats what they designed the car for.....a lightweight track focused car. I've seen a few GT3 cars here with the rear seats in them...all signed off and 100% safe and legal. Porsche did say there is no insulation in the rear of the car so it would be noisier but said no structural weakness that would restrict installation. Maybe that is what you are referring to...the omission of insulation, plus GT3RS comes with the scaffolding as standard so that would have to come out.
That's the general consensus. 991S is fast in a straight line too.
You obviously have not taken the time to read what I have posted. You assertions about the 991S relative the the .2 GT3 are inaccurate to say the least. I stand behind everything I have posted too include the rear seat area, which is not to be confused with insulation.
Haven't heard Porsche say that, and going by the numbers between these 2 cars, the 0 to 100 times don't suggest there is any notable difference.
The head Porsche rep from HQ at the release night said 991 ring times are very consistent (vs GT3 .2). These guys hold a level of dialogue with PAG and have all been over there recently, also participating in the camps at iceland where they drive and marvel the accomplishments of the new car. The GT3 has bigger brakes and is a more track focused car but the newer 991 chassis platform has levelled out any advantage the 3 had with its own special suspension and lighter chassis. 991S is certainly not to be underestimated.
The recent clip here showing the 991S stride away from 997S.2 is evidence the new 991 is more than just a pretty face.
I haven't heard that either although there (may) be something in it if you were using the manual 991S. Can you link a reference from Porsche?...or a test that has been conducted to confirm what you are saying here?
Haven't heard of that either. Again if you could link the reference from Porsche where they say rear seats are not advised or unable to be fitted into a GT3.2, or earlier GT car, that would confirm your advice on that.
My investigating the possibilities of fitting rear seats into a GT3 with Porsche technical HQ (Aus) confirmed that the car can take the rear seats and is legal where fitted and DOT approved by an approved engineer. Porsche themselves just don't/won't do it because it defeats what they designed the car for.....a lightweight track focused car. I've seen a few GT3 cars here with the rear seats in them...all signed off and 100% safe and legal. Porsche did say there is no insulation in the rear of the car so it would be noisier but said no structural weakness that would restrict installation. Maybe that is what you are referring to...the omission of insulation, plus GT3RS comes with the scaffolding as standard so that would have to come out.
That's the general consensus. 991S is fast in a straight line too.
#53
03-14-2012, 07:20 PM
[quote=911dev;3485354][quote=speed21;3481815]
You obviously have not taken the time to read what I have posted. You assertions about the 991S relative the the .2 GT3 are inaccurate to say the least. I stand behind everything I have posted too include the rear seat area, which is not to be confused with insulation.
I think your statement applies moreso to what i have posted. I certainly understood what you had posted. I also didnt wish to offend you, just point out (not assert) that in general terms the performance between the 2 cars is much the same. Going by the product catalogues for these two cars the following figures apply:
0 to100. GT3 is 4.1. 991S/PDK is 4.3 sec. I also note independant tests which have supposedly achieved times sub 4 sec.
0 to 160 the GT3 is 8.2 vs the 991 pdk at 9.0.
Flexibility or otherwise often referred to as "in gear acceleration" is identical between the 2 cars, quoted as 5.9 seconds 80 to 120kph. Weight is also very close with GT3 at an Unladen DIN of 1395 and the 991PDK at 1415. Unladen EC of 1470 for GT3 and 1490 for 991PDK. Note: A heavier or lighter driver could swing those figures without much trouble. The power output differential of GT3 320kw/430nm vs 991S at 294kw/440nm is also not huge given the torque curves of each power plant.
There is no doubt a difference in the driving experience between these cars but that said, going by 930mans account on Mostly James's thread (did you read it?) he says he was able to beat instructor level drivers that were in track prepped GT3's whilst he was in his 991S. Kinda supports what Porsche says on the ring times don't it?
You may have noticed I asked 930man to chime in and give more info there? So I wasn't flat out refuting the 997GT3 was the quicker car, just that in a general sense there would appear to be little to nothing between the cars in most driving situations....going by the facts. And, in a track environment the 991 with its superior chassis dynamics is able to match, or even beat GT3...going by 930mans account.
On the rear seats, I was indeed calling you out to provide reference material to support your claim that the GT3 was not structurally suitable to have rear seats installed, as going by my own investigations into the matter was told an entirely different story by Porsche technical. Needless to say there are a few GT3's I've personally seen that have been signed of by DOT engineers, fully legal and, safe.
You obviously have not taken the time to read what I have posted. You assertions about the 991S relative the the .2 GT3 are inaccurate to say the least. I stand behind everything I have posted too include the rear seat area, which is not to be confused with insulation.
0 to100. GT3 is 4.1. 991S/PDK is 4.3 sec. I also note independant tests which have supposedly achieved times sub 4 sec.
0 to 160 the GT3 is 8.2 vs the 991 pdk at 9.0.
Flexibility or otherwise often referred to as "in gear acceleration" is identical between the 2 cars, quoted as 5.9 seconds 80 to 120kph. Weight is also very close with GT3 at an Unladen DIN of 1395 and the 991PDK at 1415. Unladen EC of 1470 for GT3 and 1490 for 991PDK. Note: A heavier or lighter driver could swing those figures without much trouble. The power output differential of GT3 320kw/430nm vs 991S at 294kw/440nm is also not huge given the torque curves of each power plant.
There is no doubt a difference in the driving experience between these cars but that said, going by 930mans account on Mostly James's thread (did you read it?) he says he was able to beat instructor level drivers that were in track prepped GT3's whilst he was in his 991S. Kinda supports what Porsche says on the ring times don't it?
You may have noticed I asked 930man to chime in and give more info there? So I wasn't flat out refuting the 997GT3 was the quicker car, just that in a general sense there would appear to be little to nothing between the cars in most driving situations....going by the facts. And, in a track environment the 991 with its superior chassis dynamics is able to match, or even beat GT3...going by 930mans account.
On the rear seats, I was indeed calling you out to provide reference material to support your claim that the GT3 was not structurally suitable to have rear seats installed, as going by my own investigations into the matter was told an entirely different story by Porsche technical. Needless to say there are a few GT3's I've personally seen that have been signed of by DOT engineers, fully legal and, safe.
Last edited by speed21; 03-14-2012 at 07:45 PM.
#54
03-14-2012, 07:47 PM
[quote=speed21;3485690][quote=911dev;3485354]
I think your statement applies moreso to what i have posted. I certainly understood what you had posted. I also didnt wish to offend you, just point out (not assert) that in general terms the performance between the 2 cars is much the same. Going by the product catalogues for these two cars the following figures apply: 0 to100. GT3 is 4.1. 991S/PDK is 4.3 sec.
0 to 160 the GT3 is 8.2 vs the 991 pdk at 9.0. Flexibility or otherwise often referred to as "in gear acceleration" is identical between the 2 cars, quoted as 5.9 seconds 80 to 120kph. Weight is also very close with GT3 at an Unladen DIN of 1395 and the 991PDK at 1415. Unladen EC of 1470 for GT3 and 1490 for 991PDK. Note: A heavier or lighter driver could swing those figures without much trouble. The power output differential of GT3 320kw/430nm vs 991S at 294kw/440nm is also not huge given the torque curves of each power plant. There is no doubt a difference in the driving expereince of these cars but that said going by 930mans account on Mostly James's thread (did you read it?) he says he was able to beat instructor level drivers that were in track prepped GT3's while he was in his 991S. Kinda supports what Porsche says on the ring times dont it?
You may have noticed i asked 930man to chime in and give more info there, so i wasnt flat out refuting the 997GT3 was quicker, just that in a general sense there is little between the cars in most driving situations. And, in a track environment the 991 with its superior chassis dynamics is able to match or beat GT3.
On the rear seats i was indeed calling you out to provide reference material to support your claim that the GT3 was not structurally suitable to have rear seats installed, as going by my own investigations into the matter was told an entirely different story by Porsche technical. Needless to say there are a few GT3's ive personally seen that have been signed of by DOT engineers, fully legal and, safe.
I don't have the time to address everything you posted. I will say that .08 seconds is a lot of time especially when the latter car has PDK and LC. As far as track times go, it takes a fully performance optioned 991S (PDCC, SPASM, PDK, LC, SC, even PCCBs in this case) to match the GT3's time at the Ring. I'm not so sure as the laps progress that the 991's brakes and suspension will be up to the GT3's level. Additionally, the 991S, as previously mentioned, would have a MSRP greater than that of the comparable .2 GT3, even without adding for PCCBs.
Of course, all of this was posted in my initial threads. For the record, I am fond of the 991S and do not think it is just a pretty face. That said, it is no .2 GT3.
I think your statement applies moreso to what i have posted. I certainly understood what you had posted. I also didnt wish to offend you, just point out (not assert) that in general terms the performance between the 2 cars is much the same. Going by the product catalogues for these two cars the following figures apply: 0 to100. GT3 is 4.1. 991S/PDK is 4.3 sec.
0 to 160 the GT3 is 8.2 vs the 991 pdk at 9.0. Flexibility or otherwise often referred to as "in gear acceleration" is identical between the 2 cars, quoted as 5.9 seconds 80 to 120kph. Weight is also very close with GT3 at an Unladen DIN of 1395 and the 991PDK at 1415. Unladen EC of 1470 for GT3 and 1490 for 991PDK. Note: A heavier or lighter driver could swing those figures without much trouble. The power output differential of GT3 320kw/430nm vs 991S at 294kw/440nm is also not huge given the torque curves of each power plant. There is no doubt a difference in the driving expereince of these cars but that said going by 930mans account on Mostly James's thread (did you read it?) he says he was able to beat instructor level drivers that were in track prepped GT3's while he was in his 991S. Kinda supports what Porsche says on the ring times dont it?
You may have noticed i asked 930man to chime in and give more info there, so i wasnt flat out refuting the 997GT3 was quicker, just that in a general sense there is little between the cars in most driving situations. And, in a track environment the 991 with its superior chassis dynamics is able to match or beat GT3.
On the rear seats i was indeed calling you out to provide reference material to support your claim that the GT3 was not structurally suitable to have rear seats installed, as going by my own investigations into the matter was told an entirely different story by Porsche technical. Needless to say there are a few GT3's ive personally seen that have been signed of by DOT engineers, fully legal and, safe.
Of course, all of this was posted in my initial threads. For the record, I am fond of the 991S and do not think it is just a pretty face. That said, it is no .2 GT3.
Last edited by 911dev; 03-14-2012 at 07:54 PM.
#55
03-14-2012, 11:13 PM
[quote=911dev;3485724][quote=speed21;3485690]
I don't have the time to address everything you posted. I will say that .08 seconds is a lot of time especially when the latter car has PDK and LC. As far as track times go, it takes a fully performance optioned 991S (PDCC, SPASM, PDK, LC, SC, even PCCBs in this case) to match the GT3's time at the Ring. I'm not so sure as the laps progress that the 991's brakes and suspension will be up to the GT3's level. Additionally, the 991S, as previously mentioned, would have a MSRP greater than that of the comparable .2 GT3, even without adding for PCCBs.
Of course, all of this was posted in my initial threads. For the record, I am fond of the 991S and do not think it is just a pretty face. That said, it is no .2 GT3.
Agree it's no GT3.2. Two totally different yet similar driving experiences both being Porsches. But that said, for all the excitement of GT3's taught chassis and higher revving super seductive engine you simply can't ignore the obvious where evolution of the 911 has 991 eclipsing the performance of such a formidable car. The fact you can use 991S as an everyday driver vs a car thats essentially a track day and weekend car, yet 991s can match it on Nurburg and, going by 930man can round up track prepped 997GT3's in competant hands, is just incredible! And I imagine if GT3's engine was in 991S it would be goodnight Irene to 997GT3.2...completely.
You mention the brakes. Well 991S now has six piston monoblock....ok, lets look at the specific facts: GT3.2 with 380 front 350 rear (in steel or ceramic) and 911S with 340 front 330 rear (or 350 front and 350 rear in ceramic), the brakes are certainly up to the job (for most) drivers capabilities under torturous track day conditions. And then the revised suspension (and Sports chassis pasm) in particular, combined with the revised body structure and engine placement 991 has evidently overtaken GT3's suspension/chassis dynamics in this area hence 991's ability to not only match GT3's ring time but again, allows it to be used by most drivers far more competantly to produce better lap times on that track day out. Then there is also the vastly improved engine note....the list just keeps going...
So while it is no GT2.2, most folks would be happpy about that because 991S has wider versatilty and in most cases can be driven faster and more competantly due to its improvements. Sorry Gt3.2 but that's evolution for you....so GT3 guys blame Porsche not me
.
And on MSRP I think to be fair you need to compare the 997GT3 pricing with 991GT3's price when it comes out. 991s and 997gt3 are two different design platforms.
I don't have the time to address everything you posted. I will say that .08 seconds is a lot of time especially when the latter car has PDK and LC. As far as track times go, it takes a fully performance optioned 991S (PDCC, SPASM, PDK, LC, SC, even PCCBs in this case) to match the GT3's time at the Ring. I'm not so sure as the laps progress that the 991's brakes and suspension will be up to the GT3's level. Additionally, the 991S, as previously mentioned, would have a MSRP greater than that of the comparable .2 GT3, even without adding for PCCBs.
Of course, all of this was posted in my initial threads. For the record, I am fond of the 991S and do not think it is just a pretty face. That said, it is no .2 GT3.
You mention the brakes. Well 991S now has six piston monoblock....ok, lets look at the specific facts: GT3.2 with 380 front 350 rear (in steel or ceramic) and 911S with 340 front 330 rear (or 350 front and 350 rear in ceramic), the brakes are certainly up to the job (for most) drivers capabilities under torturous track day conditions. And then the revised suspension (and Sports chassis pasm) in particular, combined with the revised body structure and engine placement 991 has evidently overtaken GT3's suspension/chassis dynamics in this area hence 991's ability to not only match GT3's ring time but again, allows it to be used by most drivers far more competantly to produce better lap times on that track day out. Then there is also the vastly improved engine note....the list just keeps going...
So while it is no GT2.2, most folks would be happpy about that because 991S has wider versatilty and in most cases can be driven faster and more competantly due to its improvements. Sorry Gt3.2 but that's evolution for you....so GT3 guys blame Porsche not me
.And on MSRP I think to be fair you need to compare the 997GT3 pricing with 991GT3's price when it comes out. 991s and 997gt3 are two different design platforms.
Last edited by speed21; 03-14-2012 at 11:30 PM.
#56
03-15-2012, 04:31 AM
[quote=speed21;3485878][quote=911dev;3485724]
Agree it's no GT3.2. Two totally different yet similar driving experiences both being Porsches. But that said, for all the excitement of GT3's taught chassis and higher revving super seductive engine you simply can't ignore the obvious where evolution of the 911 has 991 eclipsing the performance of such a formidable car. The fact you can use 991S as an everyday driver vs a car thats essentially a track day and weekend car, yet 991s can match it on Nurburg and, going by 930man can round up track prepped 997GT3's in competant hands, is just incredible! And I imagine if GT3's engine was in 991S it would be goodnight Irene to 997GT3.2...completely.
You mention the brakes. Well 991S now has six piston monoblock....ok, lets look at the specific facts: GT3.2 with 380 front 350 rear (in steel or ceramic) and 911S with 340 front 330 rear (or 350 front and 350 rear in ceramic), the brakes are certainly up to the job (for most) drivers capabilities under torturous track day conditions. And then the revised suspension (and Sports chassis pasm) in particular, combined with the revised body structure and engine placement 991 has evidently overtaken GT3's suspension/chassis dynamics in this area hence 991's ability to not only match GT3's ring time but again, allows it to be used by most drivers far more competantly to produce better lap times on that track day out. Then there is also the vastly improved engine note....the list just keeps going...
So while it is no GT2.2, most folks would be happpy about that because 991S has wider versatilty and in most cases can be driven faster and more competantly due to its improvements. Sorry Gt3.2 but that's evolution for you....so GT3 guys blame Porsche not me.
And on MSRP I think to be fair you need to compare the 997GT3 pricing with 991GT3's price when it comes out. 991s and 997gt3 are two different design platforms.
But, we are not comparing the future 991 gt3 to the .2. We are comparing the 991S to the .2 3. With that said, you can't have it both ways. In your opinion the S competes with the .2 3 but price is irrelevant? Funny how the S needs $10k buying power more to compete with the 3.
As far as brakes go, size does matter; the 40mm and 20mm, fore and aft makes a difference. And, the .2;s brakes are more than just bigger. Of course, size alone does matter. Suspension??? Did you read my post? I didn't say it wasn't up to the task of assisting the S compete with the 3. I said it was not up to task of repeated track duty as the 3 is. In simple terms, the brakes and suspension will not take the same abuse as those on the 3, all things being equal. FTR, SPASM is not the same as what comes on a gt3.
At least we agree when Porsche creates the 991 3, it will be a monster.
Agree it's no GT3.2. Two totally different yet similar driving experiences both being Porsches. But that said, for all the excitement of GT3's taught chassis and higher revving super seductive engine you simply can't ignore the obvious where evolution of the 911 has 991 eclipsing the performance of such a formidable car. The fact you can use 991S as an everyday driver vs a car thats essentially a track day and weekend car, yet 991s can match it on Nurburg and, going by 930man can round up track prepped 997GT3's in competant hands, is just incredible! And I imagine if GT3's engine was in 991S it would be goodnight Irene to 997GT3.2...completely.
You mention the brakes. Well 991S now has six piston monoblock....ok, lets look at the specific facts: GT3.2 with 380 front 350 rear (in steel or ceramic) and 911S with 340 front 330 rear (or 350 front and 350 rear in ceramic), the brakes are certainly up to the job (for most) drivers capabilities under torturous track day conditions. And then the revised suspension (and Sports chassis pasm) in particular, combined with the revised body structure and engine placement 991 has evidently overtaken GT3's suspension/chassis dynamics in this area hence 991's ability to not only match GT3's ring time but again, allows it to be used by most drivers far more competantly to produce better lap times on that track day out. Then there is also the vastly improved engine note....the list just keeps going...
So while it is no GT2.2, most folks would be happpy about that because 991S has wider versatilty and in most cases can be driven faster and more competantly due to its improvements. Sorry Gt3.2 but that's evolution for you....so GT3 guys blame Porsche not me
.And on MSRP I think to be fair you need to compare the 997GT3 pricing with 991GT3's price when it comes out. 991s and 997gt3 are two different design platforms.
But, we are not comparing the future 991 gt3 to the .2. We are comparing the 991S to the .2 3. With that said, you can't have it both ways. In your opinion the S competes with the .2 3 but price is irrelevant? Funny how the S needs $10k buying power more to compete with the 3.
As far as brakes go, size does matter; the 40mm and 20mm, fore and aft makes a difference. And, the .2;s brakes are more than just bigger. Of course, size alone does matter. Suspension??? Did you read my post? I didn't say it wasn't up to the task of assisting the S compete with the 3. I said it was not up to task of repeated track duty as the 3 is. In simple terms, the brakes and suspension will not take the same abuse as those on the 3, all things being equal. FTR, SPASM is not the same as what comes on a gt3.
At least we agree when Porsche creates the 991 3, it will be a monster.
Last edited by 911dev; 03-15-2012 at 05:12 AM.
#57
03-15-2012, 05:30 AM
[quote=911dev;3485960][quote=speed21;3485878]
But, we are not comparing the future 991 gt3 to the .2. We are comparing the 991S to the .2 3. With that said, you can't have it both ways. In your opinion the S competes with the .2 3 but price is irrelevant? Funny how the S needs $10k buying power more to compete with the 3.
As far as brakes go, size does matter; the 40mm and 20mm, fore and aft makes a difference. And, the .2;s brakes are more than just bigger. Of course, size alone does matter. Suspension??? Did you read my post? I didn't say it wasn't up to the task of assisting the S compete with the 3. I said it was not up to task of repeated track duty as the 3 is. In simple terms, the brakes and suspension will not take the same abuse as those on the 3, all things being equal.
At least we agree when Porsche creates the 991 3, it will be a monster.
Correct we are not comparing, but as you mentioned price point it was relevant that I mention the two different platforms were never likely to share the same $ figure anyway. When you look at the general advancements made by Porsche along with all the extra creature comforts 10k isn't a huge amount extra to pay for a stylish new platform that also happens to meet the 3's measure on key fronts.
Agree it also stands to reason if the 991S has the current 3's measure on the track then 991Gt3 is bound to be devastating.
Finally on the brakes, even though the new 991S's brakes would be more than adequate for the majority of users, and situations, i agree the slightly larger 997GT3.2's brakes should prove superior in a durability sense. However that said, at what point the 991S brakes would begin to cave in is unknown as they are hardly under gunned for the car. I guess if you were doing an endurance race like the Bathurst 1000, the GT3's brakes may prove superior in that environment? GT3 is generally renown for its durability in hard core track conditions but how many users take the car to the threshold of its capability anyway. Its got such massive potential. 991S on the other hand is a user friendly DD that just happens to meet the GT3's measure at the ring and sports the latest design and performance improvements for much the same $. It too also has huge potential. I guess the question that may be more relevant to ask on todays standing is what car would you buy now if you had neither in your stable at present? A well spec'd 991S or an outgoing/superseded GT3?
But, we are not comparing the future 991 gt3 to the .2. We are comparing the 991S to the .2 3. With that said, you can't have it both ways. In your opinion the S competes with the .2 3 but price is irrelevant? Funny how the S needs $10k buying power more to compete with the 3.
As far as brakes go, size does matter; the 40mm and 20mm, fore and aft makes a difference. And, the .2;s brakes are more than just bigger. Of course, size alone does matter. Suspension??? Did you read my post? I didn't say it wasn't up to the task of assisting the S compete with the 3. I said it was not up to task of repeated track duty as the 3 is. In simple terms, the brakes and suspension will not take the same abuse as those on the 3, all things being equal.
At least we agree when Porsche creates the 991 3, it will be a monster.
Agree it also stands to reason if the 991S has the current 3's measure on the track then 991Gt3 is bound to be devastating.
Finally on the brakes, even though the new 991S's brakes would be more than adequate for the majority of users, and situations, i agree the slightly larger 997GT3.2's brakes should prove superior in a durability sense. However that said, at what point the 991S brakes would begin to cave in is unknown as they are hardly under gunned for the car. I guess if you were doing an endurance race like the Bathurst 1000, the GT3's brakes may prove superior in that environment? GT3 is generally renown for its durability in hard core track conditions but how many users take the car to the threshold of its capability anyway. Its got such massive potential. 991S on the other hand is a user friendly DD that just happens to meet the GT3's measure at the ring and sports the latest design and performance improvements for much the same $. It too also has huge potential. I guess the question that may be more relevant to ask on todays standing is what car would you buy now if you had neither in your stable at present? A well spec'd 991S or an outgoing/superseded GT3?
Last edited by speed21; 03-15-2012 at 05:35 AM.
#58
03-15-2012, 08:20 AM
[quote=speed21;3485980][quote=911dev;3485960]
Correct we are not comparing, but as you mentioned price point it was relevant that I mention the two different platforms were never likely to share the same $ figure anyway. When you look at the general advancements made by Porsche along with all the extra creature comforts 10k isn't a huge amount extra to pay for a stylish new platform that also happens to meet the 3's measure on key fronts.
Agree it also stands to reason if the 991S has the current 3's measure on the track then 991Gt3 is bound to be devastating.
Finally on the brakes, even though the new 991S's brakes would be more than adequate for the majority of users, and situations, i agree the slightly larger 997GT3.2's brakes should prove superior in a durability sense. However that said, at what point the 991S brakes would begin to cave in is unknown as they are hardly under gunned for the car. I guess if you were doing an endurance race like the Bathurst 1000, the GT3's brakes may prove superior in that environment? GT3 is generally renown for its durability in hard core track conditions but how many users take the car to the threshold of its capability anyway. Its got such massive potential. 991S on the other hand is a user friendly DD that just happens to meet the GT3's measure at the ring and sports the latest design and performance improvements for much the same $. It too also has huge potential. I guess the question that may be more relevant to ask on todays standing is what car would you buy now if you had neither in your stable at present? A well spec'd 991S or an outgoing/superseded GT3?
The latter!
An endurance race would not likely be necessary to exploit the 991's brakes. It doesn't even take that to do so on a well driven gt3. Point is the 991's are not meant for repeated track duty, nor is the car as track ready. Yep! the 991's ring time matches that of the .2 3, while costing about $10k more to do so while being equipped with computer enhanced shifting and launch, etc, etc, etc... Talk about never using the car to it's potential. I would think most of us will tap into that potential at the Ring, not! Man, pass me some of that kool-aid!
Correct we are not comparing, but as you mentioned price point it was relevant that I mention the two different platforms were never likely to share the same $ figure anyway. When you look at the general advancements made by Porsche along with all the extra creature comforts 10k isn't a huge amount extra to pay for a stylish new platform that also happens to meet the 3's measure on key fronts.
Agree it also stands to reason if the 991S has the current 3's measure on the track then 991Gt3 is bound to be devastating.
Finally on the brakes, even though the new 991S's brakes would be more than adequate for the majority of users, and situations, i agree the slightly larger 997GT3.2's brakes should prove superior in a durability sense. However that said, at what point the 991S brakes would begin to cave in is unknown as they are hardly under gunned for the car. I guess if you were doing an endurance race like the Bathurst 1000, the GT3's brakes may prove superior in that environment? GT3 is generally renown for its durability in hard core track conditions but how many users take the car to the threshold of its capability anyway. Its got such massive potential. 991S on the other hand is a user friendly DD that just happens to meet the GT3's measure at the ring and sports the latest design and performance improvements for much the same $. It too also has huge potential. I guess the question that may be more relevant to ask on todays standing is what car would you buy now if you had neither in your stable at present? A well spec'd 991S or an outgoing/superseded GT3?
The latter!
An endurance race would not likely be necessary to exploit the 991's brakes. It doesn't even take that to do so on a well driven gt3. Point is the 991's are not meant for repeated track duty, nor is the car as track ready. Yep! the 991's ring time matches that of the .2 3, while costing about $10k more to do so while being equipped with computer enhanced shifting and launch, etc, etc, etc... Talk about never using the car to it's potential. I would think most of us will tap into that potential at the Ring, not! Man, pass me some of that kool-aid!
Last edited by 911dev; 03-15-2012 at 08:42 AM.
#59
03-15-2012, 03:36 PM
[quote=911dev;3486073][quote=speed21;3485980]
The latter!
An endurance race would not likely be necessary to exploit the 991's brakes. It doesn't even take that to do so on a well driven gt3. Point is the 991's are not meant for repeated track duty, nor is the car as track ready. Yep! the 991's ring time matches that of the .2 3, while costing about $10k more to do so while being equipped with computer enhanced shifting and launch, etc, etc, etc... Talk about never using the car to it's potential. I would think most of us will tap into that potential at the Ring, not! Man, pass me some of that kool-aid!
So are you saying you've managed to overcook the brakes on a Gt3.2?
And, ya know i was only just recently saying on another thread how money always seems to come up at one point even though everyone here is $o loaded
Haha.. and too funny on the cool aid 911dev...but you've had way too much already
Hey btw whats your current whip?
The latter!
An endurance race would not likely be necessary to exploit the 991's brakes. It doesn't even take that to do so on a well driven gt3. Point is the 991's are not meant for repeated track duty, nor is the car as track ready. Yep! the 991's ring time matches that of the .2 3, while costing about $10k more to do so while being equipped with computer enhanced shifting and launch, etc, etc, etc... Talk about never using the car to it's potential. I would think most of us will tap into that potential at the Ring, not! Man, pass me some of that kool-aid!
And, ya know i was only just recently saying on another thread how money always seems to come up at one point even though everyone here is $o loaded
Haha.. and too funny on the cool aid 911dev...but you've had way too much already
Hey btw whats your current whip?
#60
03-15-2012, 05:24 PM
Most of the affluent and wealthy people I know pay attention to costs and consider value when they spend, even when they can easily afford to spend more. In fact, one of my wealthiest friends (over $100M) is a miser who would never consider buying a Porsche ... any Porsche.