all the short comings mentioned are actually music to my ears. progressive breaking loose of the backend is great. why would you want a 911 with a snappy rear?

modern 996, 997 series are really capable cars that rewards the driver with the perfect combination of performance, fun, safety and reliability. it can make the driver feel like a race car driver, thus pushing the car too far. i am glad to see 991 is making strides in keeping that rear end in check. that alone is the only issue i'd have in getting another one.

 

The Harris review is very nice but I think that we'll have to wait for real world comments before deciding how great the car is.

I do have a horse in this race, (see my cars below). These are our forth & fifth porsches and I will not be buying another one.

The 997 and especially the 997.2 was designed during a period of great affluence and Porsche did not answer to a parent company. Unlike the 996 and maybe even the 991 the 997.2 is probably the purest expression of what a Porsche is.

Only time will tell.

 

What does this mean? "The purest expression of what a porsche is"


This is fable and poetry of days of yore... I've owned a couple 911's including a 997.2. This car will be better because the 997.2 was not that great. Dated, cheap interior bits - tons of creaks and rattles. Long overhangs. Dying for refresh and updates to the creature comforts. Great motor and lots of feel but it was needing to be taken out and put down.

And just because there is partial ownership by a parent company doesn't mean the new cars are inferior. You are already making assumptions that the 991 is missing a soul. You say "unlike the 996 and maybe even the 991..." when referencing pure perfection of what Porsche is. Why assume that? Because it's faster? Lighter? Improved? I guess improvement strips the soul from a car.

I'd hate to think what the pundits said when the 911 got air conditioning or ABS.

And remember - there are still purists behind you mocking you in your water-cooled machine. "It's not a Porsche if it isn't air cooled!"

 

I have... but does it matter? When finally driven each person can decide for yourself.

 

People are entitled to an opinion but this quote makes no sense.

I have never seen a post talk about cheap interiors or creaks and rattles with a 997.2. Not once!.

My 7 year old 997.1 with over 40 track days doesn't make a sound.

At first I thought your defense of the 991 was just fanboy-ism...with this post I am not sure where you come from.


edit....


Oh...I see...i didn't notice your stable...you have ordered already...I see where you are coming from.

OK...thats cool....best of luck with the car...it will be a great ride.

 

I'm not a fanboy - my last car was a 997. I'm taking reliable reports from great drivers and formulating an opinion.

And the interior of the 997.2 is notoriously rattly. Mine is. My friends wife's is. My buddies turbo is as well. Matter of fact most of the 991 review Ive read state that Porsche made much needed improvements to the interior quality eliminating many of the creaks and rattles. I'm not going to dig for posts regarding noise but if you simply go back into this 991 forum and read the thread regarding "juice on the 991", the first post even quotes someone in the know saying "a lot of the cabin creaking is pretty much gone." This is a common gripe.

Glad yours doesn't rattle.

Bottom line - I'm annoyed by an article that cites that unquestionable massive improvements in performance robbing the car of the right to be called a 911. It's illogical.

 

Whoa - somebody's upset.

Couldn't agree more about the cheap plastic. The turbo has >$20K of red leather so there is no plastic but it cost quite a bit. The 4S has a fair amount of leather but still a lot of plastic. II haven't seen the 991 option list but I'm sure you have to pay for the leather. Both are completely rattle free but you do hear about the problem.

The turbo priced out at $170K, and it's worth every penny. The boost especially on a cold clear morning is totally fierce and with the ear to ear grin it's hard to not be happy.

Anyway, the point to this thread was to open this discussion. certainly in the 991, Porsche has, for good or bad, redefined the brand and set it's future course.

Eric, just curious, Why are you moving to the PDK?

 

Oh I just thought it would be a neat change - I love cars so much I may only keep this one for 20-24 months before I upgrade/swap - if I dislike PDK I'll re-up on a manual

And I haven't lost any sleep on the decision - some of the video's of the car driving are blowing my mind on those gear changes. Sounds like an F1 car - so quick.

Sorry I got my fur up on the Automag article. And it isn't because I ordered one already- I just didn't subscribe to their line of logic. If they told us the car was poorly built I would have been less vocal about it - it just sounded like improvements irked them

cheers.

 

IMO, "better" does not necessarily translate to more fun or greater desirability. Don't get me wrong, often it does, but not always.

Yes, Chris Harris said the 991 is a real 911, BUT... Near the end of the article he also said, after stating how much "better" the 991 is, that one could get the impression he's saying it isn't really exciting anymore. He then says don't worry, it really is exciting, if you drive it like you're being chased. Sorry, but one thing I've loved about 911s is that not only are they great to drive very fast, but also that they're alive even at less than huge speeds -- you didn't have to drive them like you're being chased for a 911 to be really involving. For me, if the 991 has been "improved" in a way that it needs to be driven extremely fast in order to be really engaging, then it's not for me. Even if it's "better." Guess I'll find out when I drive it.

BTW, I also find it interesting that, when the 997 was introduced, nearly every report said it was wonderful. Now that the 991 is arriving, the press is FULL of all sorts of things that are wrong with the 997...

Oh, and real 911s are air-cooled

 

Very good point that people rarely note. I have the same feeling about the Cayman - it's a blast when driven really fast (and relatively easy to drive fast), but somewhat boring at normal speeds, whereas the 911 feels more dynamic at all speeds.

 

As an owner of both platforms I have to say you hit it on the nail.

 

Very good side to the discussion.

The 991 shines on the track as we have seen with the Ring time.

The 991 on the track is a monster with all the electronic gizmos. But you may pay a steep price.

If your not a decent driver these electronic devices are going to do the work for you and you will eat up tires and brakes at a much faster rate.

On most public roads who will very rarely get a chance to use the advancements at high speed.

Still a great car but one has to think carefully if it fits the needs of the individual driver.