991 Pricing Ridiculous...
#151
02-01-2012, 12:50 PM
You are right.
I have been an avid supporter of the 991 since day one. Don't get me wrong. I really like the 991. I would actually be picking one up if the dealers weren't trying to bend me over on the price.
But you cannot deny that this salesman (assuming that he is one or some other employee who works for Gaudin Porsche) in that video is definitely in bed with porsche and that his opinion is obviously biased.
I have been an avid supporter of the 991 since day one. Don't get me wrong. I really like the 991. I would actually be picking one up if the dealers weren't trying to bend me over on the price.
But you cannot deny that this salesman (assuming that he is one or some other employee who works for Gaudin Porsche) in that video is definitely in bed with porsche and that his opinion is obviously biased.
Reminds me of Niles Crane on Frasier. Seems like he trying to be poetic and use big words but the wrongs ones come out. "electronic steering wheel".More leg room? Non-issue. NBA players own 911's - I'm 6-3" and could get my 997 seats so far back that i wouldn't safely work the pedals.
And if he said "Please allow me to illustrate..." one more time I'm going to hunt him down !!
#152
02-01-2012, 12:51 PM
I have not driven it yet, but I remain wary of the EPAS. Even the reviews that are exceedingly positive state reservations about the steering, some slight, some major. It's such an important part of the driving experience.
I'm not at all reassured that the engineers did this for the "right" reasons. I fear they may have done it for marketing to a broader consumer base, not for the enthusiast. As some have said in this thread, the average buyer won't notice. Call me a purist, but I may find that I liked 911s better when they were not intended for the "average buyer," even if that's an average Porsche buyer. I really want to love it. We shall see.
Still a huge shame that the engine can't be seen AT ALL.
I'm not at all reassured that the engineers did this for the "right" reasons. I fear they may have done it for marketing to a broader consumer base, not for the enthusiast. As some have said in this thread, the average buyer won't notice. Call me a purist, but I may find that I liked 911s better when they were not intended for the "average buyer," even if that's an average Porsche buyer. I really want to love it. We shall see.
Still a huge shame that the engine can't be seen AT ALL.
some good points...yes...it would be nice to see more of the engine
#153
02-01-2012, 12:54 PM
You bring up the wider front - I heard Porsche refer to it as a Coke bottle design. Pretty neat to see from above.
#154
02-01-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm still trying to figure out when we decided the new steering was bad and if there even IS a dilemma. I tend to side with the decisions of some of the best sports car engineers in the world when they decided to make the new steering system electronic assist. I'll assume it to be positive until I can can confirm negative beyond a doubt. Why wouldn't we when referring to a 911?
At this time I will reserve opinion on good or bad - and while I have driven the 991, I have not thrashed the car into corners so I'm not a good judge.
There is a wave of malcontent of the new concept by guys who haven't even seen the car in person. There is also vast skepticism afoot - if a reviewer praises something about the car, he has been "paid off". I've now read that 5 reviewers were "in bed with porsche and paid off". This guy is obviously an product ambassador - but maybe he indeed likes the steering. Who knows? ChuckJ simply posted a review - and I cross posted it.
Where is the neutrality?
At this time I will reserve opinion on good or bad - and while I have driven the 991, I have not thrashed the car into corners so I'm not a good judge.
There is a wave of malcontent of the new concept by guys who haven't even seen the car in person. There is also vast skepticism afoot - if a reviewer praises something about the car, he has been "paid off". I've now read that 5 reviewers were "in bed with porsche and paid off". This guy is obviously an product ambassador - but maybe he indeed likes the steering. Who knows? ChuckJ simply posted a review - and I cross posted it.
Where is the neutrality?
Last edited by Inglorious; 02-01-2012 at 01:18 PM.
#155
02-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Regarding prices, it seems that pricing hasn't changed that much in a while for pretty well-equipped cars, but now that there are so many options (expensive ones), a new heavily optioned 991 (especially an S) is a lot more money than in the past. As a reference point, my '95 993 had a sticker price of just shy of $70,000, and it's a well-optioned car (including full leather). Looking at the CPI, that price translates to about $103,000 today (2011 actually). IIRC, base price in '95 was just under $60,000, which is roughly $88,000 today. Sounds about comparable to a new base 991.
#156
02-01-2012, 01:35 PM
Not trying to start a feud here, but with all due respect, you are not neutral either. Someone who is neutral would not automatically assume that the new steering system is an automatic positive. I am just as guilty of being biased as you are, but we just so happen to stand on opposite sides of the aisle on this one issue. Just saying my friend
You mention that you are biased the other direction - is that based on your understanding of the electronic steering mechanism? I don't know - I'm unaware if I've had experience with that technology - Just curious, legitimately. I'm new to the concept. The steering was certainly amazing before - unsure why the change was warranted.
Cheers!
Last edited by EricP; 02-01-2012 at 03:33 PM.
#157
02-01-2012, 01:45 PM
Driving a PDK does fell a little like an electronic game, but it doesn't lose that tactile feel for some reason like simulators do. Now that the 991 has slightly more engine noise and a lot less road noise, playing with the PDK is really is sensual.
ChuckJ
#158
02-01-2012, 02:09 PM
I agree - good point.
Here is a review posted by ChuckJ in another forum - he talks to the steering (the guy is a little annoying - an calls it an "electro mechanical steering wheel" instead of the steering system. But he gives some impressions.
Somewhere arena 3:20 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T8Ww73M0cw
Here is a review posted by ChuckJ in another forum - he talks to the steering (the guy is a little annoying - an calls it an "electro mechanical steering wheel" instead of the steering system. But he gives some impressions.
Somewhere arena 3:20 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T8Ww73M0cw
#159
02-01-2012, 02:48 PM
For someone who will probably never be able to afford one new I just wish they fell off faster than they do. 5-6 year old C4S’s are still at 50% MSRP value give or take depending on the options. That seems pretty great to me compared to a lot of other cars that are at 30%-40% after the same period of time.
This is an Apples to Potato comparison but take a loaded BMW 750i that is 4 years old and it will be worth about 40% of the new MSRP, a 5-6 year old one is probably under 30%. From what I can tell even the Panamera is going to follow closer to the 911 than to its A8, 7 series and S class competitors.
This is an Apples to Potato comparison but take a loaded BMW 750i that is 4 years old and it will be worth about 40% of the new MSRP, a 5-6 year old one is probably under 30%. From what I can tell even the Panamera is going to follow closer to the 911 than to its A8, 7 series and S class competitors.
#160
02-02-2012, 04:59 AM
#161
02-02-2012, 05:27 AM
I think it´s about time Americans stop complaining about prices 
. With 120k USD you cant even get yourself in a decent 997.2 C2S in Finland, let alone a 991 C2S which will cost you 224k USD bone stock.
. With 120k USD you cant even get yourself in a decent 997.2 C2S in Finland, let alone a 991 C2S which will cost you 224k USD bone stock.
#162
02-02-2012, 06:21 AM
But like you said, theres plenty to complain about over there, too 
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#163
02-02-2012, 06:35 AM
We like to refer that area as North Cuba, not South Florida. We don't draw lines, we blur them.
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#165
02-03-2012, 04:53 AM
