I won't say that didn't cross my mind, but for other reasons (including many you have cited), I went with PDK this time around after 4 manual sports cars (e92 M3, 987s, 986 and Miata).

This is progress and if I am going to be dropping >$100k on a car, I'd like to have at least some of the newest driving technology. A test drive in a 997.2 with PDK convinced me. Everything I have read says that the 991 PDK transmission is even better.

 

There is a reason why mostly men drive 911's. I read a thread recently that said 90% of 911 owners are men. Let's just say it....Heavy steering. I LOVE the way my C4S drives but even I was surprised at how heavy the steering was initially. After a month with the car I would have it no other way. As bat sheet crazy as I fly around turns I WANT my steering to feel like it does and not some electric powered numbness. Having said that, most women don't like it. They like the lighter more "assisted" steering feel. It's not sexist, it's just the way it is. Porsche is catering to "the masses" and you really can't blame them. Look at the success of the Cayenne?

 

In Houston not only they sell for MSRP, they add some "dealer fees" and will pay about 20-25% off retail on your used 997.2
I understand they will charge MSRP for this car for the next 3 months or so (remember, 2013 is coming in August), but low balling the current owners might **** off some of them (I am).
The BMW dealers are paying at least 15% more for a 997.2, and selling their cars below MSRP. I'm waiting to see their price policy on M5. Allegedly the MSRP on high 80's-low 90's, depending on options, which should mean invoice around 80. Perhaps one can get it around 85 with some decent equipment.
Another option is the Maserati GTS. There are new cars MY11 going for 115 up to 120 for the convertible.

 

We both wish, but I doubt anyone will get into a new M5 for 95 or under. Be careful of Maserati b/c they depreciate like lead balloons. Consider used R8 and A-M V8/V12 variants that also fall far & fast...

 

I know, a Maserati GTS MY 08 goes for 60+, MSRP around 140... Porsche is not that better. The stealership offered 55% of original MSRP on my car as a trade in (or not), which is 2 1/2 years old.

Everything I read about the M5 suggests MSRP around 90. In Europe, it is cheaper than the X6M (which is made here, perhaps that's the reason). There is also ED with a 7% price off. So, it looks brighter on that aspect.
Regardless, their dealerships are more flexible in this area and wont bluntly low-ball your trader in, they'll buy you dinner first and ask what's your zodiac sign.

The cheapest DB9 coupe I found in the area goes for 134. It's not bad, but maintenance and resale value should be considered, even when one buys a car for emotional rather than rational reasons (is there another way for sports cars?).

2 seater is not an option as my domestic argument is being able to seat 2 children in the back. If I had to buy a 2 seater, would be the new Boxster S, once it shows on the used car market.

 

My recently sold and perfect DB9 was MUCH cheaper than that but rear seat room was a problem for my kids. Porsche rear seats are better and the Maserati even better. New 5-series design is better but I'm not sure I love it. M5 will look nicer but still. It will be a Swiss Army knife and there's something to be said for that. I really want 997.2 GT3 but lack of a rear seat holding me back some. I hope the 991 is "all that" but doubt it can be GT3-like (pure sports car). New M3 might be worth looking at since it should have utility and pace...

 

Not forgetting M6, that promises 600HP next year...
DB9 rear seats are worse than a 911's? That comes as a surprise to me. They are so crappy that you cannot fit a car seat facing backwards (now up to 2 yo, not 1 any longer). It's not only the narrow space but the back angle, even worse on the cabrio.
The current M3 I found to be disappointing, heavy and lacking torque in low revs. The M5 is somewhat boring, looks too much like the lesser 5's, if one cares for that. The car itself is supposed to be 80% new (!).

 

DB9 OK maybe up to a 6 year old. New M3 should be as new M5, which is to say twin-turbo engine which always gives TQ almost equal to HP or sometimes exceeding it. By then SMG should be on point as well but I'd probably still prefer a manual for the feel of it. I'll get back to BMW again after having M3/M5/others in the past. M6 rear seat is a joke also IMO...

 

I have... I didn't see these results (even started a thread about it here). For the R8 I wanted, it was a bit too much, so I went back to the drawing board.

For me, the bar has been set for what I want to pay for options - $0. I expect everything to be included (perhaps the GT-R spoiled me). Resale is easy, because every car is fully equipped. Purchase is easy, because you just pick out your color.

I really enjoyed this debate - because I, too, configured a Cayman a while back (base MSRP was around $60k) ended up being $97 with options I feel every car should have anyway.

I just prefer to wait for somebody else to take the hit.

 

+1. I did the config and am doing the same. I'd like a Cayman R but I'm not going to trade in my 997 plus pony up an additional $30-40K for a new Cayman R. Rather wait for some ridiculously spec'd out (pdk, pccb, sport buckets, etc.) used one to show up on a dealers lot a year from now. Yeah, I can wait.

 

Excellent question/comment. I am having a hard time understanding why Porsche went to electric steering in the 991. Superb steering feel has always been one of things that was central to a 911 being a great drive -- why jeopardize this? Obviously, they did it to improve fuel economy/cut emissions, but by their own figures the savings attributable to EPAS are very small. Seems to me it's quite likely that they could have done all of the things they did with the 991 except for going to EPAS -- and thereby produced a car that is every bit as good, fast and capable while also being more tactile and involving at reasonable speeds and at very high speeds.

Andrew Frankel -- a true 911 fan -- wrote a very interesting review of the 991 in the current issue of Motorsport. In short, he said that the car is absolutely incredible. He also said that it was extremely easy to drive, and that it has become so capable that he "was so concerned that the process of domesticating the 911 had finally gone a step too far..." He wondered whether, underneath all the sophistication, there "still beat the heart of the world's greatest sports car." So, he "thrashed" it to find out. And he found that "heart."

However... he said the EPAS is great by EPAS standards, which is a massive qualification. He had to comprehensively thrash the car to find its soul -- it was there, but it wasn't apparent until he drove it at truly enormous speeds. He said "if you know where to look," it's "a hard-core driving machine" but that "you have to search too hard to find this other side of its character."

That's what concerns me -- it's undoubtedly an extraordinary car, but if it has to be driven at huge speeds at the absolute ragged edge to be truly involving, it may be what I'm looking for.

I hope my concerns prove unfounded.

 

This move toward being ultimately more capable in lesser hands is what is driving almost all new versions. The more they cater to a wider audience, the more sales they will have. They know very few will want to put up with a Cayman R or GT3 on a daily basis, but that's their origins and some need those cars, which is why they still produce those cars. An "average" doctor, lawyer, businessman who buys/leases a new 911 will likely be pleased by how in their perceived reality they are having their cake and eating it too. For 99.9% of their use the car is civil and quite capable, yet they can tell their friends if driven at the other .1% it can match a GT3 (997) at the 'ring.

 

Agreed. A car that's relatively easy to drive very fast suits the track, but maybe not so much public roads.

I have the same issue with the Cayman R. It's a real joy and incredible performer at high speeds, but a bit boring at normal speeds. And also a speeding ticket risk, because you can routinely find yourself at 50% over the speed limit without even realizing it.

I plan to drive the 991 on Feb 4, and am eager to see how it goes.

 

Please understand my amusement of the last 3 posts...

A fan will find whatever he wants, should he look hard enough.

But, Manifold - why not have a car that can be driven quickly on track, as well as suitable for public roads? You can't honestly tell me that Nissan set the bar for Porsche? Because this is EXACTLY what Porsche drivers have been saying about the GT-R. (A lot of those comments were directed at me over the last 3+ years)

What I'm getting at is - Red Devil is right. Wider audience means more sales. I'm sure there is a purist Porsche employee somewhere that may have quit his job when the 991 plans were executed. Or perhaps that guy was fired, because he wanted to keep a certain 'feel' for the car, but refused to bend. Some marketing guy said that if we improve 'x', we'll sell more cars. And Porsche, being a business, went right along.

 

I don't disagree that Porsche is going in a direction which supports their business interest, nor do I fault them for that. But it does seem odd to change the steering in a way that could diminish enjoyment for a minimal gain in efficiency.

As far as road vs track, the point is that a car will ideally be both fun and capable in both environments, and especially on the road, where it's usually driven. If road fun is compromised for the sake of track (and road) capability, I'm not sure that's the best way to go.