I think a lot of people are not considering the PCCBs correctly. They are great on the track, but from what I have read, they require special pads and when they do wear out the cost is out of sight. Most who track just up-size Brembos or Stop Tech and be done with it.

On the street is where the PCCBs shine. The weight loss is extremely noticeable and changes the whole suspension for the better as the tires better follow the terrain so uneven or bumpy surfaces makes the PCCB equipped car ride almost like a different car. It is also notable that there is virtually no dust from the pads so your wheels look no dirtier than the rest of your car. In the mountains you can lean on them where you would overheat a standard breaks set and as long as you don't track it they may last for a long long time. Way longer than standard breaks.

 

I'm hearing that the ceramics could last up to 80K miles without tracking... I plan on keeping my 991S for 10 years and in my current car (e39 M5) I'm at 83K miles and 10.5 years ownership so I'm hoping I wouldn't even have to replace the ceramics during my ownership...

And yes I'm more concerned about ride (weight), brake dust, etc... Am curious about squeaking and/or grinding, though...???

 

Interesting feedback. Had not heard it would be so noticeable on the street. Anybody else that would have a similar experience?

 

Some say they can "feel" the improvement in ride quality from the reduction in unsprung weight. I've not seen this proven and having identical cars with and without ceramic rotors, I've not noticed.

The joy of ceramics is their longevity and their oh-so cool appearance on a GT3 (on a Carrera, the smaller rotor size makes it a bit uninteresting ... and on a Panamera, they're giants to behold.)

As for pad dust, that's a bit of a misunderstanding. The pads wear much the same and are the same part number, so they're the same pad. The rotor doesn't wear much at all. It's not the steel of the steel rotor creating the dust, but it is contributing the ability of the brake dust to stick to the paint of the wheel. Some say they have noticeably cleaner wheels, but I've not found that to be the case.

The best thing I've found for clean wheels is the wheel protection sprays -- clean the wheel, get it dry and spray on this wax sort of stuff, then brake dust just blows away or you can soap and hose the grime and brake dust away without the usual hard work to get it off the wheel paint. Just reapply from month to month. Some get months out of the stuff. I find it lasts about one months on the daily driver. There's several products on the shelf. I use a "green" spray and I use Mother's R3 to get the dark marks off. Great products.

On track, the ceramics are required to use the same factory stock pad as the normal steel rotor -- there used to be a performance "track" pad (some know it as the Pagid P50, but even that can be misleading) but the factory withdrew that pad from its recommended fitment list after the guinea pigs noticed the rotors would fail in a matter of days because the pad runs too hot.

The Achille's Heel of ceramics is heat -- if they get too hot on the track, they tend to fail quickly and very dramatically. This was a problem in 2001 with the GT2 and it's still a problem today with a 2011 GT3.

Some say they get their value out of the ceramics on track. I disagree with their math. If you want a proven "life time" brake rotor, the only thing out there is the Movit rotor which is completely different to the Porsche/Ferrari/GM/et al product. The Movit rotor is "monolithic" meaning it's one piece baked all the way through. The factory rotors are laminated composites -- a lightweight core with a thin layer of friction material baked onto the surface. The Movit rotor is tough and durable. I've gone through pads on a 3.8 RS on track without measurable wear on the rotors.

There's a ton of information and real users of PCCBs and Movit on Rennlist. I imagine they get discussed to some extent on all the forum sites.

 

Always great to hear from educated/experienced drivers... thanks for sharing flatcrank!

 

Talk with anyone with experience and you will hear about the street ride. Note that they are about 10lb of unsprung weight per corner. This also shows up in acceleration and deceleration as the rotational inertia is huge. I have them on my RS 60 and would not be without them if available. I also test drove a GT Speed with and without and it was like you were in a different car. On the Bentley the modulation is a factor as the steels are better on this car but Porsche has this down pat and while the modulation is great on the steels, I feel that they are equal or better on the ceramics. You will also notice that the ceramics requite a lot less peddle effort to get the same results.

As for noise, I find them silent but I also use them and most noise comes from being too easy on your breaks as the pads tend to glaze over.

I know they are not a good investment, however, neither is a Porsche yet I get a big extra grin every time I step on the breaks.

The only down side that I have notices is that first application when it is real wet is and eye opener.

I am planning on ordering a 991 and the one option I am sure of is the PCCBs.

 

Sloopy, are you saying that with the ceramics it's harder to brake the first time when there are wet conditions?

 

Sweeping generalizations like "talk with anyone" don't encourage me to take your opinion too seriously. I agree it's important to find people speaking from first hand experience, so I'll mention I've had a 997.1 GT3 with PCCBs and one without PCCBs on the track, driving 1:38 laps and now a 3.8 RS turning 36's -- I swapped it from PCCBs to Movits and the advantage is well documented including an RS 4.0 recently circulating Laguna at a blinding 1:32.01 running Movits.

The ride quality and braking performance are unrelated -- the ceramics have monumental braking performance, and surely contribute to "flywheel" effect in a variety of positives. I'm sure it can be measured, but the impact doesn't show up in quarter mile or track metrics like apex speed, let alone in the hands or butt dyno of the driver.

It's a well worn and weary debate and I don't mean to derail this build thread to revisit these topics.

 

Thanks to all of you for your inputs and to flatcrank for his last suggestion. Feel free to start a new thread to debate this further ...or to continue one of the -probably- many existing threads on this topic
I'll personally will continue on the path of BBK's (still have to upgrade the rear brakes) and will of course keep you posted.

 

Never had much of a problem driving in the rain, though I tend to try and not do that much, however, on rare occasion that I take it though a touchless car wash the first time you touch the brakes there is a time for them to wipe away the watter. This is only on one tough but it is dramatic coming out of a wash.

 

I don't disagree with any thing you are saying. If I was going to track my car I would not order ceramics as the weight vs performance does not seem big enough to outweigh the cost and you can do aftermarket steels that would probably serve most people better.

My reason for liking them is the improvement in the ride quality. I live in an area where many of the roads are quite bumpy and I find the lighter weight very noticeable to me. Not all people are as sensitive to feel so as with anything, it is subjective.

 

Thanks for your patience ... long threads tend to have a few frayed ends ... : )

Back to the 99 -- I have a 991S and I'm pretty impressed by the improvement in the brakes over the 997S brakes, but still, better rotors and things like braided lines are on my list. I was sort of hoping Porsche would finally dispense with drilled rotors for the 991, but here we are.

My question from earlier in the thread was to compare the thickness of the Brembo rotor to the factory 991S rotor. I'm assuming the 991 rotor is thicker and the Brembo wouldn't be compatible with the factory caliper (whether it's alignment and centering or piston excursion to use the pad as it wears.)

It would be great if you had the opportunity to measure the factory rotor dimensions and compare to the Brembo rotor (offset, rotor thickness, swept area radius, annulus, etc.)

So far, I haven't found an aftermarket rotor upgrade.

I don't want to budget on calipers, if I can space the factory item and just go with a better rotor and pad.

 

Hello SM_ATL

It was a pleasure speaking with you briefly on Mansell Road tonight. I recognized your car instantly as you exited GA400. I was able to time the lights, catch up with you, and have a short conversation. The pictures you post do not do your car justice - it is even more impressive in person. And by the way you took off and made that right turn on Westside Parkway, I would say your investment in the radar jammer should come in handy!

Todd

 

Thanks Todd. Hope you get your car delivered soon and share feedback and (and pics!). I read about a couple of 991'ers waiting for the delivery of their car in the area so it would be great to meet at Caffeine & Octane, a PCA event or simply organize a get-together between us.
As far as the take off and turn are concerned ... humm let's say that I was accelerating w/o speeding I'll have the Agency Power exhaust parts installed today and stretched the car's leg so that I could have the best possible 'before and after' feel.
Nice meeting you and see you soon,

Serge

 

SmLooking forward to you impressions of your new Agency exhaust..... Do you have PSE and if so your impressions as to it's continued function...
Looking forward to your description.
My 991 is two weeks out !!