Some nice steering going on there 930man.

So shall i take you won't be swapping your 991 back for your 997GTS....i mean with that 991 being so disconnected and all .

 

Longer wheelbase means less front/rear transfer of load during braking and acceleration. It could also mean less willingness to turn, but the tradeoff seems to work in this case.

Also, to be clear, I'm not saying that the 991 isn't a great car. I think it's one of the best cars available in its price range, or for that matter any price range. I'm just not liking it as much as the 997 (so far). But I recognize that the changes made in the 991 are ideal for some people.

 

speed21,

You've driven the 991, correct? I don't recall your posting detailed comments on your impressions, but I may have missed it. If so, a link would be appreciated.

 

I doubt speed21 has driven it in Australia, if he has it would have been overseas. The launch was last night for PCAustralia no drives till today.

Interesting conversation though going on. After seeing the car in person, I dont believe photos do it justice. At the same time my wife's comment was "the interior is nothing to write home about, it already looks dated. Not something you would expect from a car that was launched today......" She works in the Auto industry so has some idea of what is going on. Overall nice setup.

One interesting note the manual setup was a bit tight. I havent the biggest feet in the world (size 9-10) and I thought I would struggle especially if I was wearing the (dress shoes)boots I had on yesterday. Overall the 7 speed setup felt quite comfortable going through the gears.

 

No. But will do so in due course. Have already been invited to do so only yesterday when i was at my dealership (after tonights event). Was quitely shown the car there and it looked fantastic. Our release here in Sydney is on tonight actually where i will be attending. Porsche always put on a great function at these evenings, particularly when it's the release of a new 911. So it'll be a good night.

However, in answering your question i can't see how my not driving it yet has a lot to do with anything. Aside the fact there have been many that have reported, and professionally tested the car/s, and many that have openly spoken enthusiastically here on 6 about the car as being a substantial improvement, i doubt i'm going to find it any different.

Each new 911 i've been invited to drive, and, also on special drive events, have all shown to be a marked improvement on the outgoing model. Again we are talking about Porsches core expertise and long standing history and credibility of improving each 911 by a sizeable chunk. It's truly astonishing how they actually manage to do it but you gotta hand it to them, they never cease to amaze and, surprise.

 

Ok. I'll bite.

The 991S is the top of it's food chain "right now" so the comparison would have to be with the GTS. Next year will bring new iterations with more improvements, that will make this years 991 " last years model". They will be built in likely staggering numbers. The chassis dynamics do provide improved performance as to be expected with a new generation but with that improved performance comes a price which is the loss of some classic 911 dynamics that gave 911s their classic character. I'm mixed on the looks as are many but that's subjective. I don't like the Panamera console or the bulbous headlights. Just don't. To me the car is now " big". The looks overall may grow on me though to be fair.

The GTS is arguably the best 997 of the breed for the money according to some journalists ( and I agree ), the last of an era and built in limited numbers for a short time, provides a less refined but rawer sports car driving experience, prodigious performance enabling it to be nipping at the heels of a 991 and with performance limits beyond the reach of most mortal men in what many consider the second best looking 911 version after the 993...

For me I'd pick the GTS again. Honest injun. An Aero kit would just seal the deal. But I already did this analysis back in June when I got my GTS. Nothings changed and I've seen the 991 in person and driven it.

Based on the above through that view which would you pick? Come on be honest.

To each his own. No regret or remorse here.

 

Based on pure cosmetics I would take the 991 hands down. When we were leaving the Porsche Centre last night I said to my wife, "If I had the money I would take that 993 C4S (they had the 6 generations on display at the entrace) and a new 991C2S cab" (keeping in mind the two cars combined would set me back US$450K) and her response was "why take that old dated car, the new one is so much better". Obviously a response from a non purists point of view. I love the GTS for the wide body but I cannot overlook the new setup. I am a sucker for the "new" but I doubt I would be unhappy with either. I had a 997.2TT Cab for a short period and loved it but the interior to me is still quite raw. Would I take a 997 GTS over a 991 at this point in time, no unless I can get the GTS for a substantial discount and even then I would have trouble and most likely buyers remorse. 991 for me thanks

 

After seeing the 991 yesterday when it was backed into the showroom and sat alongside a C4S.2 (and other 997's around) i'd have to say it was most certainly visually verrry impressive indeed! It certainly showed up the 997 as the earler design, and no matter what the viewing angle the 991 had it all over the 997. I'm quite thankfull I own a widebody turbo or i'd imagine i'd be feeling pretty outdone if i was getting back into my previous 997S....no question about that.

So, on the basis 991's looks are more contemporary, and, the drive is obviously improved (based upon the professional testing and recent 6 user/tester views) from both visual and performance perspective, then it's a no brainer for me. It'd be 991 all day long and I'd only be having a lend of myself to say different. In fact if i didnt own a 997TT i'd be probably placing an order for one. So i have some breathing space to wait for the GT3 and Turbo to surface. Both those cars will be even more stunning i imagine.

A GTS on the other hand, whilst wide bodied and with the different front bar would hold up better against the 991 visually vs a 997S but will inevitably become relegated and devalued accordingly the further time progressed and as the newer model becomes more widely recognised in the Porsche and non Porsche community. 7 years can be a long time to hold out on a car that will lose value at a faster rate than the current 991 car....which it will do.

997 has been a terrific car for me and i have fond memories of my S. My Turbo is in another league altogether particularly when you talk in gear acceleration and the muscular body shape so i have no immediate need per se' to be in the latest and greatest this very second IYKWIM.

However, when the 991Turbo comes out that situation will undoubtedly change. The only obstacle will be the price....and, on that note i again remind you americans you all have no idea just how fortunate you are with your car prices.

PS. Re both your own and Manfolds choice to take a 997GTS over 997S. You both mention rear wing and body kit so forth as an enhancement to help things along with the body of the 997 to fend off against the newer more attractive 991. Fair enough. But put the rear wing and body kit onto the 991 then if that's a prerequisite.

 

Makes sound sense. It's impossible to overlook the obvious and remain honest to yourself.

Btw how was the do last night? As good as 997 launch? Plenty of french champagne and rock oysters? What am i in for this time?

cheers.

 

Yes plenty of champagne flowing but the food was lacking

Obviously we werent there for the drinks and nibblies but they have ballsed up the launch cars for Australia. The Germans in their ultimate wisdom did not package Sports Chrono on ANY of the cars and pretty much only added the PSE to the base delivery of both the C and C2S. As I mentioned earlier my wife works in the auto industry and she found it lack lustre. Conscidering it was held at the head office of PCA you would think they could have executed better. For instance the bag of goodies included:

a 991 model
a model range catalogue of the 997 - WTF?
a brochure on yet again the 997
a Wheels Magazine compilation of various press articles

It just looked half baked and poor planning with poor execution. This sort of stuff should not occur. Even when they pulled the curtains back on the cars they forgot to do little things like fold out the mirrors, have sun roofs closed on all vehicles, no spoilers up. All the showy stuff was just wrong.

Maybe I am too critical but they definately didnt do the car justice. I approached the national sales manager and said to him WTF no SC? He looked at me and simply replied - You dont need it in this car. I basically turned around and said to him, dont give me the company line what went wrong. He finally confessed that upstairs stuffed up and the orders were all wrong for the launch cars.

Apart from the little stuff ups it was good to see the car in person. Oh the only two cars that had SC were the press cars but no one can drive them, they are off limits

 

I'm surprised that you've been arguing so emphatically for the 991 (over the 997) without even having driven it. Now, after you drive it, you'll be biased, at least unconsciously, to report that you love it.

 

"Fanboyism" at it's best.

 

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/...brand-loyalty/

 

I just want to ask people. So where do you drive that you need to use the car at 9/10ths on a daily basis? We seem to have a rash of professional drivers here. Im guessing a pro driver would thrash you with a 993 in your 991. So for daily driving you REALLY need to do these comparos?

Frankly the 911 body is what drew me to the brand. Speed21 to comment on the body makes me think you would never sit in a 993 or 930. Kinda sad when people start to nit pick at a body still that porsche has tried so had to keep the same.......

 

thanks...good find