Ahhh 997 GTS vs. 991 C2S
#241
03-06-2012, 06:01 AM
And would it matter what it (991) had? The bottom line is the GTS, nor any 997 for that matter simply doesn't possess the newer more highly developed chassis, w/wo PDCC. And for that matter why waste money trying to turn something into something else that at the end of the day will never be the new car anyway. The costs associated would never be recoverable. Its a bit like trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear isn't it. I mean why bother when the silk is available?
You are kidding me. You just compared the 997 to a pigs ear, talking about a chassis you have NEVER driven? Did someone at the dealer give you a bottle of 24yo Scotch?
People that make these comments make me laugh. I fish bass tournaments, who cares but the point is my boat runs 80+ mph while most everyone else is 65-72. Everytime I turn around they go on and on about the improvements to the ride of their brand, then they get in mine.
Corvette still makes sick power with its POS pushrod system.
You Fanbois make me laugh so hard. YOU ARE FREAKING LAYPEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL Drivers. So ANY comments about a chassis you have NEVER driven, are as useful as **** on a bull. You have zero credibility and other than what your salesman whom most likely just finished a video on it and can throw out a few buzzwords has told you, you are clueless.
Now if a GT ALMS DTM etc driver comes on here and starts telling me how badly I would need a 991 for daily driving.... maybe JUST MAYBE I will listen.
What Porsche is also doing is creating a reason to increase the pricing. Keep on though. I need the laughs. Maybe you can extoll me on the virtues of different ****pit systems and which scalpels are best too. You know you sat in a plane once so you need to be in the best, or took a splinter out so you are now the expert on surgery
hilario us
#242
03-06-2012, 06:13 AM
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I'd get a new gts, dealers are discounting them deeply. Saw one at 17k off.
re the comments about the chassis, the more advanced they get, the more numb they become.
my last 911 was a 2011 tts, very fast, very numb. I actually went old school with a 930 as my weekend toy, dumping the tts. No more 100k DDs for me.
re the comments about the chassis, the more advanced they get, the more numb they become.
my last 911 was a 2011 tts, very fast, very numb. I actually went old school with a 930 as my weekend toy, dumping the tts. No more 100k DDs for me.
#243
03-06-2012, 06:48 AM
You are kidding me. You just compared the 997 to a pigs ear, talking about a chassis you have NEVER driven? Did someone at the dealer give you a bottle of 24yo Scotch?
People that make these comments make me laugh. I fish bass tournaments, who cares but the point is my boat runs 80+ mph while most everyone else is 65-72. Everytime I turn around they go on and on about the improvements to the ride of their brand, then they get in mine.
Corvette still makes sick power with its POS pushrod system.
You Fanbois make me laugh so hard. YOU ARE FREAKING LAYPEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL Drivers. So ANY comments about a chassis you have NEVER driven, are as useful as **** on a bull. You have zero credibility and other than what your salesman whom most likely just finished a video on it and can throw out a few buzzwords has told you, you are clueless.
Now if a GT ALMS DTM etc driver comes on here and starts telling me how badly I would need a 991 for daily driving.... maybe JUST MAYBE I will listen.
What Porsche is also doing is creating a reason to increase the pricing. Keep on though. I need the laughs. Maybe you can extoll me on the virtues of different ****pit systems and which scalpels are best too. You know you sat in a plane once so you need to be in the best, or took a splinter out so you are now the expert on surgeryhilario us
People that make these comments make me laugh. I fish bass tournaments, who cares but the point is my boat runs 80+ mph while most everyone else is 65-72. Everytime I turn around they go on and on about the improvements to the ride of their brand, then they get in mine.
Corvette still makes sick power with its POS pushrod system.
You Fanbois make me laugh so hard. YOU ARE FREAKING LAYPEOPLE. YOU ARE NOT PROFESSIONAL Drivers. So ANY comments about a chassis you have NEVER driven, are as useful as **** on a bull. You have zero credibility and other than what your salesman whom most likely just finished a video on it and can throw out a few buzzwords has told you, you are clueless.
Now if a GT ALMS DTM etc driver comes on here and starts telling me how badly I would need a 991 for daily driving.... maybe JUST MAYBE I will listen.
What Porsche is also doing is creating a reason to increase the pricing. Keep on though. I need the laughs. Maybe you can extoll me on the virtues of different ****pit systems and which scalpels are best too. You know you sat in a plane once so you need to be in the best, or took a splinter out so you are now the expert on surgery
hilario usWow...spit out my coffee with the last bit.
But I agree with you.
I often wonder where people are feeling the differences in understeer on most public roads.
I remember my first time feeling understeer, really feeling it and that was at the PSDS at Barber Motorsports Park in a 997.1 and it was entering a turn at a speed I could never get to on a road in NJ. (without losing my license). It was a neat to feel the understeer and work to correct it.
Do I lose that with a 991?
Maybe not if I can drive as well as a semi-pro or like an advanced DE guy like 930man. But I'm not nowhere near there yet.
So the 991 is a great performance vehicle, Porsches best 911 yet. But it’s not the best for many of us...yet.
Last edited by buck986; 03-06-2012 at 07:25 AM.
#247
03-06-2012, 07:31 AM
, but I don't notice the same thing with the 911.
#248
03-06-2012, 07:47 AM
On public roads, I sometimes notice a hint of understeer with the Cayman R, evidenced only by needing to dial in a bit more steering to hold the line. It's very subtle, and probably an intentional safety thing which is best for most drivers. Or it could be an illusion , but I don't notice the same thing with the 911.
, but I don't notice the same thing with the 911.Interesting.
I would have thought there you would have more understeer in the 911.
With severe understeer (on a track) in my 911 I need to lessen steering input and come off brakes slightly to give more grip to the front wheels.... than back to steering input.
I would like to be able to balance the car enough before entering the turn so as to have no understeer...doesn't quite work out that way each and every time.
#249
03-06-2012, 10:19 AM
After seeing the 991 yesterday when it was backed into the showroom and sat alongside a C4S.2 (and other 997's around) i'd have to say it was most certainly visually verrry impressive indeed! It certainly showed up the 997 as the earler design, and no matter what the viewing angle the 991 had it all over the 997. I'm quite thankfull I own a widebody turbo or i'd imagine i'd be feeling pretty outdone if i was getting back into my previous 997S....no question about that
.
So, on the basis 991's looks are more contemporary, and, the drive is obviously improved (based upon the professional testing and recent 6 user/tester views) from both visual and performance perspective, then it's a no brainer for me. It'd be 991 all day long and I'd only be having a lend of myself to say different. In fact if i didnt own a 997TT i'd be probably placing an order for one. So i have some breathing space to wait for the GT3 and Turbo to surface. Both those cars will be even more stunning i imagine.
A GTS on the other hand, whilst wide bodied and with the different front bar would hold up better against the 991 visually vs a 997S but will inevitably become relegated and devalued accordingly the further time progressed and as the newer model becomes more widely recognised in the Porsche and non Porsche community. 7 years can be a long time to hold out on a car that will lose value at a faster rate than the current 991 car....which it will do.
997 has been a terrific car for me and i have fond memories of my S. My Turbo is in another league altogether particularly when you talk in gear acceleration and the muscular body shape so i have no immediate need per se' to be in the latest and greatest this very second IYKWIM.
However, when the 991Turbo comes out that situation will undoubtedly change. The only obstacle will be the price
....and, on that note i again remind you americans you all have no idea just how fortunate you are with your car prices.
PS. Re both your own and Manfolds choice to take a 997GTS over 997S. You both mention rear wing and body kit so forth as an enhancement to help things along with the body of the 997 to fend off against the newer more attractive 991. Fair enough. But put the rear wing and body kit onto the 991 then if that's a prerequisite.
.So, on the basis 991's looks are more contemporary, and, the drive is obviously improved (based upon the professional testing and recent 6 user/tester views) from both visual and performance perspective, then it's a no brainer for me. It'd be 991 all day long and I'd only be having a lend of myself to say different. In fact if i didnt own a 997TT i'd be probably placing an order for one. So i have some breathing space to wait for the GT3 and Turbo to surface. Both those cars will be even more stunning i imagine.
A GTS on the other hand, whilst wide bodied and with the different front bar would hold up better against the 991 visually vs a 997S but will inevitably become relegated and devalued accordingly the further time progressed and as the newer model becomes more widely recognised in the Porsche and non Porsche community. 7 years can be a long time to hold out on a car that will lose value at a faster rate than the current 991 car....which it will do.
997 has been a terrific car for me and i have fond memories of my S. My Turbo is in another league altogether particularly when you talk in gear acceleration and the muscular body shape so i have no immediate need per se' to be in the latest and greatest this very second IYKWIM.
However, when the 991Turbo comes out that situation will undoubtedly change. The only obstacle will be the price
....and, on that note i again remind you americans you all have no idea just how fortunate you are with your car prices.PS. Re both your own and Manfolds choice to take a 997GTS over 997S. You both mention rear wing and body kit so forth as an enhancement to help things along with the body of the 997 to fend off against the newer more attractive 991. Fair enough. But put the rear wing and body kit onto the 991 then if that's a prerequisite.
OMG talk about a 991 sycophant!I think you need to get your eye glass Rx checked. The 991 looks are at at the top of the controversey my friend. More "contemporary"? Yes I'll give you that which a fortiori makes the 997 looks a more classic looking Carrera. My wife even commented that the new 991 looks like a Jag or a baby Panamera. If it gets any bigger the next option to get will be a tow package.
Is it bad looking?..No. But...it is not as handsome or classic looking as the 997 nor has it been as Evo said as "instantly loveable" as the 997. I can see exactly what Evo means. I think the looks will grow on me though to be fair.
In the end it is a nice car. The 997 has "been" a terrific car?. Sorry my friend it still is. In fact, in case you missed it Motor Trend this month compared the figure 8 times of a GTS vs. a 991. The 991 was 0.2 seconds faster and the GTS was clocked at 24.1 seconds in the figure 8 with Motor Trend noting puts it in "rare company". So which is it? The 991 is not that much better then the 997 as you tout or the 997 is not the out dated antiquated slug you suggest it is.
As far a devaluing the GTS, yes right now many are hot for the "new" 991 and have to have the latest "greatest". As Squat said unless your are Boris Said or some other FIA petite LeMans talent there will still be plenty of 997s passing 991s at open track.
Also as far as value, very simply in a year or two we will be awash in a sea of 991s and 991S's with ever "better" 991s coming down the road. The 997 GTS universe is fixed, limited and no longer in production and forever represents the best of what will be a classic Carrera. See the below Top Gear article.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/porsche/91...a-4-gts-driven.
I rest my case.
Last edited by Waxer; 03-06-2012 at 10:34 AM.
#250
03-06-2012, 10:46 AM
Yes, cars are cheap in the US relative to other countries. So is food (though not as much as it was), Petrol/Gasoline etc.
However many other items are not cheap in the US. Healthcare, Education and personal property (e.g. - housing) taxes are expensive are some examples. Am I going to buy a $100+k Porsche at the expense of one of those? Is that a very different question from asking whether I can afford a $250k Porsche in a country that provides those items cheap or even free?(Obviously understanding that they are likely subsidized from something else like the tax I pay on the $250k Porsche) If anything, I suppose at least I have the choice to pay less on one and more on the Porsche.
#251
03-06-2012, 03:23 PM
Shheheeeshhh! Guy's are you sure you've finished laying the boot in on poor old "fan boy"? 
Wowwwww!!! Desperation sure can bring out the worst in some folks. I had no idea...
And squat? Well now my good friend. Blowing in out of nowhere to join in the bashing. Wow, you really are one very very disrespectful SOB but i guess you were trying hard to seek approval somehow by getting yourself in on the act by coming out with such a mouthful of verbal diarrhoea. I can see why you were tagging a run of red dots before i foolishly helped you out in removing those. I guess I've learned my lesson the hard way with you buddy.
Oh well..when i get some time today i'll respond to some of you guys. But don't get yourselves too comfortable.
Wowwwww!!! Desperation sure can bring out the worst in some folks. I had no idea...
And squat? Well now my good friend. Blowing in out of nowhere to join in the bashing. Wow, you really are one very very disrespectful SOB but i guess you were trying hard to seek approval somehow by getting yourself in on the act by coming out with such a mouthful of verbal diarrhoea. I can see why you were tagging a run of red dots before i foolishly helped you out in removing those. I guess I've learned my lesson the hard way with you buddy.
Oh well..when i get some time today i'll respond to some of you guys. But don't get yourselves too comfortable
.
#252
03-06-2012, 03:28 PM
#253
03-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Speed21:
What desparation? You asked for an answer to your "question". I answered it. Period. I set forth my opinion and arguments why I prefer the GTS to the new initial issue versions of the 991, at least for now. With time that may change with new versions of the 991 i.e. GT3, a GTS 991 etc..
All in all the 991 is a beautiful car. I and many others (believe it or not) honestly just don't care for it as much as the 997 and especially the 997 GTS and don't need the "latest and greatest". For some reason you seem insulted by that notion. BTW I like your 997TT (your Avatar) better then the 991 too. Beautiful!
BTW you did compare a GTS to a "pigs ear". That kinda smacks of "desparation" to me. But I know in your heart you didn't mean it.
What desparation? You asked for an answer to your "question". I answered it. Period. I set forth my opinion and arguments why I prefer the GTS to the new initial issue versions of the 991, at least for now. With time that may change with new versions of the 991 i.e. GT3, a GTS 991 etc..
All in all the 991 is a beautiful car. I and many others (believe it or not
) honestly just don't care for it as much as the 997 and especially the 997 GTS and don't need the "latest and greatest". For some reason you seem insulted by that notion. BTW I like your 997TT (your Avatar) better then the 991 too. Beautiful!BTW you did compare a GTS to a "pigs ear". That kinda smacks of "desparation" to me. But I know in your heart you didn't mean it.
Last edited by Waxer; 03-06-2012 at 03:51 PM.
#254
03-06-2012, 05:05 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
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I can't believe my thread made it to 18 pgs and still going strong!
#255
03-06-2012, 06:23 PM
I can't tell you how much this argument is beginning to bug me.
Yes, cars are cheap in the US relative to other countries. So is food (though not as much as it was), Petrol/Gasoline etc.
However many other items are not cheap in the US. Healthcare, Education and personal property (e.g. - housing) taxes are expensive are some examples. Am I going to buy a $100+k Porsche at the expense of one of those? Is that a very different question from asking whether I can afford a $250k Porsche in a country that provides those items cheap or even free?(Obviously understanding that they are likely subsidized from something else like the tax I pay on the $250k Porsche) If anything, I suppose at least I have the choice to pay less on one and more on the Porsche.
Yes, cars are cheap in the US relative to other countries. So is food (though not as much as it was), Petrol/Gasoline etc.
However many other items are not cheap in the US. Healthcare, Education and personal property (e.g. - housing) taxes are expensive are some examples. Am I going to buy a $100+k Porsche at the expense of one of those? Is that a very different question from asking whether I can afford a $250k Porsche in a country that provides those items cheap or even free?(Obviously understanding that they are likely subsidized from something else like the tax I pay on the $250k Porsche) If anything, I suppose at least I have the choice to pay less on one and more on the Porsche.
Firstly Sydney i believe was recently claimed as the second most expensive city in the world to live in closely followed by Melbourne and so on. Aus in general is not a cheap place to live on any front...not that i plan moving elsewhere any time soon. Education. Hmm. OK. Well my daughter costs me around 30K per year to school and my health care costs me at least 6k per year whether i even go to the doc or not. I guess i could send her to a public school for a lot less but i'm not convinced she's going to come out of the system in good shape. Electricity, gas , fuel and so on are all through the roof...as are groceries, clothing and any luxury items etc. I'm still paying all dental and so forth. However, if on the other hand you happen to be a potless plonker living on a park bench or, even better still if you're an illegal refugee arriving by boat then it's "welcome to the land of milk and honey" sir
.The govt here seems very happy to oblige those folk with everything ex gracia ( 5tar accom , apple macs etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ) derived from our hard earned taxes and, all for free. You can see why those people are climbing over the top of one another to get here.So if you are in that demographic you have a valid point Sap. However, if you have any money or generate any form of respectable income then you are in for a very rude shock my friend, and that's forgetting all about our outrageously expensive car prices. eg 450k for a TTS vs US 160 thereabouts. New 991S in US is 130 for a nicely optioned car. Aus for the same thing is 330+.
So I think us Aussies are well within their rights to say to you americans just how lucky you guys are with your car prices, notwithsatnding the other very expensive costs associated to our eductation, health care, so on so forth. Hope this helps to clear it all up for you
. .