Ahhh 997 GTS vs. 991 C2S
#46
02-18-2012, 06:29 PM
speed21,
Value is key in any purchase so what you are saying it spot on.
However one could argue that there is no value in getting the 991 now as its at its peak price and the best time to get the GTS is might be now since the delta might be at its greatest. (I'm speaking of comparing two new cars.) I'm not sure where substantial discount ends and merely significant discount begins.
But there is always a number that can make a deal happen.
Each person must decide what that delta has to be to be swayed one way or another.
Value is key in any purchase so what you are saying it spot on.
However one could argue that there is no value in getting the 991 now as its at its peak price and the best time to get the GTS is might be now since the delta might be at its greatest. (I'm speaking of comparing two new cars.) I'm not sure where substantial discount ends and merely significant discount begins.
But there is always a number that can make a deal happen.
Each person must decide what that delta has to be to be swayed one way or another.
#47
02-18-2012, 06:32 PM
Manifold when a buyer comes in to buy a particular car and leaves without buying it, speaking more favourably about the "other car" it's a foregone conclusion the only obstacle is the slightly extra $. He's since posted his 991 build spec..... I imagine he didn't do that to torture himself.
The rest is history... i.e. the remaining 997 group opining why the older car is still worth considering. The only "legitimate" reason would be a very substantial price drop or, the need for nostalgia...but then this is not an air cooled engine. Btw way you may notice my sig...997tt? I'm on your team with the 997 but I'm not going to kid myself (no offence). I guess if my 997tt was a recently purchased 2012 i may have a go.....but for me, in reality i don't think so. I'm not like that
The GTS will become less significant from here on end....as was the case with the special 996 anniversary 911.....dead in the shed the moment 997S's appeared along with it's value and appeal which fell off a cliff
.
PS. And on the need to go back and do "more test driving"? C'mon. OP arrived at the same logical conclusion as Porsches R and D team made when they stepped away from 991 and said job well done. So, even if the OP went back and test drove the pants off the GTS it would still be an exercise in futility. Or, are you saying Porsche failed and made the 991 worse? And all the Journo's and boffins that have since drove 991 are off the mark?... The 997 will always be a great car but without a very substantial price drop, and i mean substantial, there wouldn't be any sound logic buying it over a 991S.
I can understand your feelings having just parted with serious hard earned for a 2012 997 car that is rapidly becoming yesterdays news...along with its value. Mind you mine is hardly appreciating in appeal and value either if that's of any consolation. However, we all make our choices and ultimately must take responsibility at one point.
The rest is history... i.e. the remaining 997 group opining why the older car is still worth considering. The only "legitimate" reason would be a very substantial price drop or, the need for nostalgia...but then this is not an air cooled engine. Btw way you may notice my sig...997tt? I'm on your team with the 997 but I'm not going to kid myself (no offence). I guess if my 997tt was a recently purchased 2012 i may have a go.....but for me, in reality i don't think so. I'm not like that
The GTS will become less significant from here on end....as was the case with the special 996 anniversary 911.....dead in the shed the moment 997S's appeared along with it's value and appeal which fell off a cliff.PS. And on the need to go back and do "more test driving"? C'mon. OP arrived at the same logical conclusion as Porsches R and D team made when they stepped away from 991 and said job well done. So, even if the OP went back and test drove the pants off the GTS it would still be an exercise in futility. Or, are you saying Porsche failed and made the 991 worse? And all the Journo's and boffins that have since drove 991 are off the mark?... The 997 will always be a great car but without a very substantial price drop, and i mean substantial, there wouldn't be any sound logic buying it over a 991S.
I can understand your feelings having just parted with serious hard earned for a 2012 997 car that is rapidly becoming yesterdays news...along with its value. Mind you mine is hardly appreciating in appeal and value either if that's of any consolation. However, we all make our choices and ultimately must take responsibility at one point.
#49
02-18-2012, 07:22 PM
#50
02-18-2012, 07:33 PM
speed21,
Value is key in any purchase so what you are saying it spot on.
However one could argue that there is no value in getting the 991 now as its at its peak price and the best time to get the GTS is might be now since the delta might be at its greatest. (I'm speaking of comparing two new cars.) I'm not sure where substantial discount ends and merely significant discount begins.
But there is always a number that can make a deal happen.
Each person must decide what that delta has to be to be swayed one way or another.
Value is key in any purchase so what you are saying it spot on.
However one could argue that there is no value in getting the 991 now as its at its peak price and the best time to get the GTS is might be now since the delta might be at its greatest. (I'm speaking of comparing two new cars.) I'm not sure where substantial discount ends and merely significant discount begins.
But there is always a number that can make a deal happen.
Each person must decide what that delta has to be to be swayed one way or another.
Also, speaking of value in this instance where the latest 991S is 114k and the outgoing and used GTS is 96k, you simply can't overlook the other obvious problem with the GTS's pricing. For 96k you are well into 997 turbo territory so, why would anyone logically pay an outgoing 911 of less performance than the newer 991 car when you could buy another outgoing model that has everything the GTS has plus a lot more performance and engineering for same or less $? I mean at least the turbo will stomp the newer 991S in grunt and maintain street cred. As i said the GTS is way overpriced.
Last edited by speed21; 02-18-2012 at 07:39 PM.
#51
02-18-2012, 07:36 PM
Manifold when a buyer comes in to buy a particular car and leaves without buying it, speaking more favourably about the "other car" it's a foregone conclusion the only obstacle is the slightly extra $. He's since posted his 991 build spec..... I imagine he didn't do that to torture himself.
The rest is history... i.e. the remaining 997 group opining why the older car is still worth considering. The only "legitimate" reason would be a very substantial price drop or, the need for nostalgia...but then this is not an air cooled engine. Btw way you may notice my sig...997tt? I'm on your team with the 997 but I'm not going to kid myself (no offence). I guess if my 997tt was a recently purchased 2012 i may have a go.....but for me, in reality i don't think so. I'm not like that The GTS will become less significant from here on end....as was the case with the special 996 anniversary 911.....dead in the shed the moment 997S's appeared along with it's value and appeal which fell off a cliff.
The GTS will become less significant from here on end....as was the case with the special 996 anniversary 911.....dead in the shed the moment 997S's appeared along with it's value and appeal which fell off a cliff.
PS. And on the need to go back and do "more test driving"? C'mon. OP arrived at the same logical conclusion as Porsches R and D team made when they stepped away from 991 and said job well done. So, even if the OP went back and test drove the pants off the GTS it would still be an exercise in futility. Or, are you saying Porsche failed and made the 991 worse? And all the Journo's and boffins that have since drove 991 are off the mark?... The 997 will always be a great car but without a very substantial price drop, and i mean substantial, there wouldn't be any sound logic buying it over a 991S.
I can understand your feelings having just parted with serious hard earned for a 2012 997 car that is rapidly becoming yesterdays news...along with its value. Mind you mine is hardly appreciating in appeal and value either if that's of any consolation. However, we all make our choices and ultimately must take responsibility at one point.
#52
02-18-2012, 07:56 PM
You may be right.
No disagreement that the 991S is faster than the 997S from A to B, but that doesn't mean everyone will subjectively like it more. Financial considerations aside, I'd rather drive my 997 than the 991, and I don't appear to be alone, even if in the minority. My feeling may change with time, but that's where I am today.
Feelings can change as we test drive more, and get used to a car. At least that's been my experience. And see above on objective vs subjective.
I got the 997 knowing that the 991 was coming, and no regrets about it. Especially since I'm finding that I like the 997 more, at least for now.
. I have a mate of mine that did a similar thing as what you did and i cant but help to feel his pain everytime he sets about justifying his reasons. Oh well...thankfully time helps heal the wounds...
Last edited by speed21; 02-18-2012 at 08:04 PM.
#53
02-18-2012, 08:18 PM
Thats fine. And i'm genuinely glad you're happy. The 997 is truly a great car anyway. As i said we all make our decisions.... And not that i wish to come across as being unsympathetic to your situation because i truly am....and i mean that sincerely. I have a mate of mine that did a similar thing as what you did and i cant but help to feel his pain everytime he sets about justifying his reasons.
. I have a mate of mine that did a similar thing as what you did and i cant but help to feel his pain everytime he sets about justifying his reasons.I have a base 997.1 that I track allot and have modded slowly after three years to my liking. If I told you what I paid for it in 2009 you would laugh.
But heres the thing; when I drive it on the street; my smile and seat of the pants thrills is as great as any owner. And when I track its probable more so.
There is no way I take a new 991 to the track. None. They are just too expensive. So for now the 997 gives me more performance and fun than the 991 since. Maybe if I was on the Autobahn things would be different but in the US the only place to get the performance everyone raves about is on a track. At least legally and safely.
If you think all the extra performance makes the 991 the one to have and the price is justified go for it. But it seems we have gotten away from some of the negatives that some people have written about. But why rehash old stuff.
But please dont feel bad for us 997 owners. We will get by with our nostalgic cars that are dead in the shed cars. Just barely, but we will get by.
#54
02-18-2012, 08:36 PM
Pain? In justifying owning a 997.2 S? Seriously mate, is that what your saying?
I have a base 997.1 that I track allot and have modded slowly after three years to my liking. If I told you what I paid for it in 2009 you would laugh.
But heres the thing; when I drive it on the street; my smile and seat of the pants thrills is as great as any owner. And when I track its probable more so.
There is no way I take a new 991 to the track. None. They are just too expensive. So for now the 997 gives me more performance and fun than the 991 since. Maybe if I was on the Autobahn things would be different but in the US the only place to get the performance everyone raves about is on a track. At least legally and safely.
If you think all the extra performance makes the 991 the one to have and the price is justified go for it. But it seems we have gotten away from some of the negatives that some people have written about. But why rehash old stuff.
But please dont feel bad for us 997 owners. We will get by with our nostalgic cars that are dead in the shed cars. Just barely, but we will get by.
I have a base 997.1 that I track allot and have modded slowly after three years to my liking. If I told you what I paid for it in 2009 you would laugh.
But heres the thing; when I drive it on the street; my smile and seat of the pants thrills is as great as any owner. And when I track its probable more so.
There is no way I take a new 991 to the track. None. They are just too expensive. So for now the 997 gives me more performance and fun than the 991 since. Maybe if I was on the Autobahn things would be different but in the US the only place to get the performance everyone raves about is on a track. At least legally and safely.
If you think all the extra performance makes the 991 the one to have and the price is justified go for it. But it seems we have gotten away from some of the negatives that some people have written about. But why rehash old stuff.
But please dont feel bad for us 997 owners. We will get by with our nostalgic cars that are dead in the shed cars. Just barely, but we will get by.
Buckwheat with all due respect i think you're taking this off the beaten path. No one is talking about enjoyment and the lack thereof....well i'm not anyway. Pricing, performance, resale, buying logics etc are topics ive bought into the mix here. It goes without saying any porsche is "enjoyable". Plus i think you may need to read my sig....like...ummm....like i happen to be a 997 owner too at the moment
.
#55
02-18-2012, 08:37 PM
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: philadelphia / seoul / hong kong
Posts: 62
Rep Power: 15 
Value is always very relevant in any purchase, even though in the instance of buying a Porsche emotions can often blindside the unsuspecting....as happens when new models come out and those outgoing cars find owners. The (discounted) prices paid at that stage never truly reflect the real depreciation of those cars 12 months out. Therefore, arguing the value of buying a new 991 at list price vs buying a discounted used GTS (or new 997S runout) will always land in the favour of the newer car for obvious reasons.
Also, speaking of value in this instance where the latest 991S is 114k and the outgoing and used GTS is 96k, you simply can't overlook the other obvious problem with the GTS's pricing. For 96k you are well into 997 turbo territory so, why would anyone logically pay an outgoing 911 of less performance than the newer 991 car when you could buy another outgoing model that has everything the GTS has plus a lot more performance and engineering for same or less $? I mean at least the turbo will stomp the newer 991S in grunt and maintain street cred. As i said the GTS is way overpriced.
Also, speaking of value in this instance where the latest 991S is 114k and the outgoing and used GTS is 96k, you simply can't overlook the other obvious problem with the GTS's pricing. For 96k you are well into 997 turbo territory so, why would anyone logically pay an outgoing 911 of less performance than the newer 991 car when you could buy another outgoing model that has everything the GTS has plus a lot more performance and engineering for same or less $? I mean at least the turbo will stomp the newer 991S in grunt and maintain street cred. As i said the GTS is way overpriced.
As I said before, I will be leasing the car and with the GTS at $96,000, the monthly payment was only $200 different. With that kind of pricing, I am just going to order a 991 in a few months when my S65's lease is up. What is a fair price for the GTS? This will be my first Porsche and I don't know anything about the used market for these cars.
It seems like the $96,000 price for the GTS is kind of ridiculous, my dealer insisted that he was only going to be making like $4,000 with that deal...
How much do 997 turbos go for these days? I thought they went for sticker.
Last edited by mostlyjames; 02-18-2012 at 08:39 PM.
#56
02-18-2012, 08:44 PM
No, those are your words...so please don't confuse them with what i have said.
Buckwheat with all due respect i think you're taking this off the beaten path. No one is talking about enjoyment and the lack thereof....well i'm not anyway. Pricing, performance, resale, buying logics etc are topics ive bought into the mix here. It goes without saying any porsche is "enjoyable". Plus i think you may need to read my sig....like...ummm....like i happen to be a 997 owner too at the moment.
Buckwheat with all due respect i think you're taking this off the beaten path. No one is talking about enjoyment and the lack thereof....well i'm not anyway. Pricing, performance, resale, buying logics etc are topics ive bought into the mix here. It goes without saying any porsche is "enjoyable". Plus i think you may need to read my sig....like...ummm....like i happen to be a 997 owner too at the moment
.I only responded to what I read in your posts.
Sorry if I have misread them but I think your message is pretty clear. Maybe not. Anyway enjoy your Porsche.
Last edited by buck986; 02-18-2012 at 08:47 PM.
#57
02-18-2012, 08:46 PM
Thanks for all of your input so far guys. I talked to my dealer again today, and they are unwilling to bring down the price of the 997 GTS down anymore, which is at $96,000. I've driven both the 997 and the 991 back to back many times and even though I do like the 991 more, I wouldn't mind driving the 997 for a few years IF the price was right.
As I said before, I will be leasing the car and with the GTS at $96,000, the monthly payment was only $200 different. With that kind of pricing, I am just going to order a 991 in a few months when my S65's lease is up. What is a fair price for the GTS? This will be my first Porsche and I don't know anything about the used market for these cars.
It seems like the $96,000 price for the GTS is kind of ridiculous, my dealer insisted that he was only going to be making like $4,000 with that deal...
How much do 997 turbos go for these days? I thought they went for sticker.
As I said before, I will be leasing the car and with the GTS at $96,000, the monthly payment was only $200 different. With that kind of pricing, I am just going to order a 991 in a few months when my S65's lease is up. What is a fair price for the GTS? This will be my first Porsche and I don't know anything about the used market for these cars.
It seems like the $96,000 price for the GTS is kind of ridiculous, my dealer insisted that he was only going to be making like $4,000 with that deal...
How much do 997 turbos go for these days? I thought they went for sticker.
Your dealer not moving on the prices speaks volumes IMO.
You cant go wrong with either car.
If leasing I don't think the PDCC is as important and option.