"Porsche Engineer Predicts Manual-Transmission 911 Could Die by 2020" - Automobile
#16
For those who feel the PDK is boring, did the cars you drove have paddle shifters or just the steering wheel buttons. I actually find the paddles to be quite fun. I actually became less than enamored with the manual transmission on my 996 TT as first gear was so short it was useless. That combined with the long throw and slave issues ( both of which required an expense to correct), I am now a fan of the PDK with paddles.
#17
I totally agree spikep. I got a chance to drive the 991S with the Sport Design wheel and while I was originally skeptical, I ended up really enjoying it. The shifts are so fast that in normal driving they are not perceivable. Even in hard acceleration it so fast that you stay planted in your seat until you let off. I was originally thinking of the manual but the 991 PDK has won me over. I've been driving manual for years until I got my CTT but the PDK is much more fun then the tiptronic.
#18
Efficiency über alles = boring. Cars that drive themselves are also under development, and they'll be very efficient. And very boring. Don't get me wrong, I'm not equating PDK with self-driving cars, but greater and greater efficiency is leading to less for the driver to do, and in my view, less fun for the driver.
Sports cars are supposed to be fun.
The only remaining "improvements" removing the driver from having to steer the wheel and push the two peddles altogether and manufacturers are working on this now. When it comes to the open road driving situations i have found there is no substitute for a manual in a sports car. It's basically one of the last remaining challenges for the driver....well at least for some anyway....and, 50% of the american 911 buyers it would seem.
For those who feel the PDK is boring, did the cars you drove have paddle shifters or just the steering wheel buttons. I actually find the paddles to be quite fun. I actually became less than enamored with the manual transmission on my 996 TT as first gear was so short it was useless. That combined with the long throw and slave issues ( both of which required an expense to correct), I am now a fan of the PDK with paddles.
No manual in 2020....i think i'll believe that one when i see it. Not saying it couldn't happen but then again maybe in 2020 cars will be so environmentally unpopular it will be a sin to own one unless it's driving you lying down.
Last edited by speed21; 02-22-2012 at 04:34 AM.
#19
The PDK is a fantastic piece of engineering, and is faster than a manual. But for me, I get bored with that type transmission. The novelty is fun for several months, then I just leave it in auto after that and drive around. If it was all about being the fastest, I would probably drive something other than a 911. I am 60, and some day may not want to row my own gears. At that time, a PDK might be in my future, but not now.
Porsche loves the PDK because it is a high profit item for them. Once you factor in the cost of Sport Chrono, which most will want with PDK, you are looking at $6500. That is a pretty expensive transmission option, and a money maker for Porsche.
Porsche loves the PDK because it is a high profit item for them. Once you factor in the cost of Sport Chrono, which most will want with PDK, you are looking at $6500. That is a pretty expensive transmission option, and a money maker for Porsche.
Last edited by GS997S; 02-23-2012 at 06:21 AM.
#21
Meh, Different Strokes, for Different Folks. See what I did there. Okay, sorry. But seriously. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate. Much like any option on your Porsche people all have different views. Personally for me I drove a manual 997.2 and a PDK back to back. For me the PDK's earth-shattering, lightning fast shifts that snap you back every time was worth the concessions. The car while driven hard provides a completely different experience then under normal cruising. To those who say that the manual provides a different tactile experience I would say that times are changing and the drive for efficiency has sent many tactile experiences the way of the Dodo. Not that anyone is wrong or if the manual will ever be gone. All speculation. I personally don't see the manual disappearing until the market dictates it, and the demand for it is diminished. BMW tried to do it with the M5 but the American market's backlash quickly changed that. The market dictates the supply, and demand dictates the market. Guess it all depends on how many manual enthusiasts are around in 2020.
#22
Other than for fun and to hone your skills, the reasons for a manual transmission make less and less sense. In the not too distant past a manual transmission was considerably lighter and was both faster and got better gas mileage.
The weight penalty is almost gone and the faster and better mileage are a thing of the past. That doesn't mean some people might prefer the interaction available in the manual but the sample definitely shrinks when the performance crowd leaves. This leaves the economy (not fuel economy, but initial purchase economy) crowd and the "fun" crowd standing alone. And, since the fun crowd can grow up and change to the ease of use crowd after a Porsche or two, only the cost savings can justify a large sample of manual buyers. And how often does "economy" and "Porsche" occur in the same sentence.
The weight penalty is almost gone and the faster and better mileage are a thing of the past. That doesn't mean some people might prefer the interaction available in the manual but the sample definitely shrinks when the performance crowd leaves. This leaves the economy (not fuel economy, but initial purchase economy) crowd and the "fun" crowd standing alone. And, since the fun crowd can grow up and change to the ease of use crowd after a Porsche or two, only the cost savings can justify a large sample of manual buyers. And how often does "economy" and "Porsche" occur in the same sentence.
#23
I own a 2000 996 C2 with a manual 6 speed and it is my daily driver as well as occassional track car in Porsche Club DEs. I recently drove a 2011 Boxster S with PDK but without paddles and with the buttons on the steering wheel. I hated it. I will wait to try the PDK in a 991 with paddles before passing judgment on the latest PDK from Porsche.
There is precedent for Porsche to eliminate 6/7speed manuals with a 3 pedal layout. Ferrari did it without penalty in sales volume. Lamborghini is doing it now (the Aventador cannot be had in 3 pedal layout but its predecessor could). I was fortunate enough to own and drive two different Ferrari F430s, both with F1 paddleshifts and absolutely loved them and would not dream of getting another Ferrari without F1 transmission.
So my opinion is that if the PDK set up is better than the manual in providing both an entertaining and involving driving experience (with a proper paddle shift), more and more drivers will be converted like in the case of Ferrari and Lamborghini.
If on the other hand Porsche's manual 3 pedal layout remains more involving and entertaining to drive than their PDK of the same generation, then we will continue to have this argument. Of course there are some who will never be converted but they likely will constitute such a minority that Porsche will likely overlook their needs.
I think I will always keep my 2000 996 so I can remember what a 3 pedal layout was once like in the future!
There is precedent for Porsche to eliminate 6/7speed manuals with a 3 pedal layout. Ferrari did it without penalty in sales volume. Lamborghini is doing it now (the Aventador cannot be had in 3 pedal layout but its predecessor could). I was fortunate enough to own and drive two different Ferrari F430s, both with F1 paddleshifts and absolutely loved them and would not dream of getting another Ferrari without F1 transmission.
So my opinion is that if the PDK set up is better than the manual in providing both an entertaining and involving driving experience (with a proper paddle shift), more and more drivers will be converted like in the case of Ferrari and Lamborghini.
If on the other hand Porsche's manual 3 pedal layout remains more involving and entertaining to drive than their PDK of the same generation, then we will continue to have this argument. Of course there are some who will never be converted but they likely will constitute such a minority that Porsche will likely overlook their needs.
I think I will always keep my 2000 996 so I can remember what a 3 pedal layout was once like in the future!
Last edited by SpeeddemonC2; 02-22-2012 at 05:44 PM.
#24
The new 991S PDK shifting is so interesting that it's video game-esque. It's not Audi Tip-tronic on your wife's A6 wagon.
Pop a 991 into SPORT PLUS and grab the paddles. It's almost F1 car fast. And that's not boring or uneventful by any stretch.
Ive owned probably 20 cars in my life that were manual tranny. I get it. But the new PDK is very fun.
Pop a 991 into SPORT PLUS and grab the paddles. It's almost F1 car fast. And that's not boring or uneventful by any stretch.
Ive owned probably 20 cars in my life that were manual tranny. I get it. But the new PDK is very fun.
#25
The new 991S PDK shifting is so interesting that it's video game-esque. It's not Audi Tip-tronic on your wife's A6 wagon.
Pop a 991 into SPORT PLUS and grab the paddles. It's almost F1 car fast. And that's not boring or uneventful by any stretch.
Ive owned probably 20 cars in my life that were manual tranny. I get it. But the new PDK is very fun.
Pop a 991 into SPORT PLUS and grab the paddles. It's almost F1 car fast. And that's not boring or uneventful by any stretch.
Ive owned probably 20 cars in my life that were manual tranny. I get it. But the new PDK is very fun.
#26
And unfortunately the novelty of the 6-speed wore off quick in my 997.2 and I was wishing I had PDK.
#27
Well, if it is good enough the novelty will never wear off! I did not drive my F430 F1 in auto mode once! Not once in the two years I owned it.
#28
I'd love to experience that drive. One day
#29
How many Kms did the car do in 2 years tho? Most F cars are weekend toys out here. Dare any mileage acrue or there goes resale and up goes service costs....
#30
The old Tiptronic 5-speed weighed over 100 pounds more. That's half as much. That's what I mean.