EVO 991 3.4 Luke warm review!
#106
Do yourself a favor. Go find someone with an '87-89 Carrera and give it a go. I'm sure you can find someone willing to trade seats with you for a few minutes. It won't have airbags, anti-lock brakes, power steering or traction control to get in the way of the driving experience. No, the power is not jaw dropping, but the dynamics are unlike anything you have probably ever experienced.
As far as posters being more knowledgeable before posting here, it's apparent that you are new in here. Just hang around a while and you will see all the BS flying around with some admittedly knowledgeable posts in between. But it's all in good fun. And of course, welcome to the forum.
#107
Workmanship and quality is first class. The car has a nice look. I like the new design. The S is super fast and the PDK is flawless. The gauges are space age and very well laid out. The car is very comfortable, obviously, since it feels so big. On the bright side, if you want a very fast, well built sedan that looks like a 911, this is your car.
#109
Thanks for your input, but dwelling twenty years in the past is not my cup of tea. I want a car that's 10 years ahead of the game not 20 years behind. For those that continue to dwell in the past, my advice to them is to get over it.
As far as posters being more knowledgeable before posting here, it's apparent that you are new in here. Just hang around a while and you will see all the BS flying around with some admittedly knowledgeable posts in between. But it's all in good fun. And of course, welcome to the forum.
As far as posters being more knowledgeable before posting here, it's apparent that you are new in here. Just hang around a while and you will see all the BS flying around with some admittedly knowledgeable posts in between. But it's all in good fun. And of course, welcome to the forum.
The point of my original post, which I stand by, is that the numbers within a range are meaningless. Turn off all the electronic gizmos (if that's even possible) and see how far you get. It's great that a car can have 400-500 peak hp, but physics is still physics and that much power can easily exceed the limits of tire/chassis technology without electronics to control it. At some point, it becomes a video game where you can't lose. The greater the electronic wizardry, the less the driver is involved.
Learning to drive and drive well is not living in the past. It's timeless.
#110
But on the original topic of lukewarm review of the 3.4, I'd bet the PDK is the culprit. At my dealer's launch party they blasted down the road with an S and the PDK shifts sounded like farts. It's an incredible transmission - for an automated shift, but exciting or soulful it's not.
As for the 3.4 engine, its down on torque just a tad from the 3.6 DFI, but more importantly the peak torque is much higher up the clock. The 5 additional hp is effectively irrelevant. It allows Porsche to claim its more powerful than its predecessor (but in real world driving it isn't - as EVO discovered). Cars that NEED to be revved (M3 V8 and M5 V10 come to mind) are IMHO potentially more hazardous on the road, because, like a rice rocket bike, they ask for the driver to bury the throttle for extended periods of time as the engine revs. Some may disagree, but to me a quick blast in a 911 up to 50 from a stop sign as opposed to an M5 streaking from 50 to 120 is more 'prudent' fun on the road. So the 3.4 probably isn't any more fun than the old 3.6, then detract a bit for the electronic steering (which is simply the way of the future - get used to it) and then take a pinch of front end bob out of the equation and you're left with a car that's less fun than the 997. A better car yes (I've been in it), but perhaps less of an 'event' to drive.
I think a greater gap between the base 991 and the S was a good move on Porsche's part.
I'd like to see a review on a 991 manual 3.4 against the competition.
Regards,
DR.
Last edited by drspeed; 03-20-2012 at 03:20 PM.
#111
Love this thread
This is nothing but classic, and I do mean classic, interwebs trolling.
I will sit this one out in my '996 with a mere 42k miles on it and laugh at the arm chair quarterbacking. (Those with knowledge and actual track seat time, I tip my hat to.)
I will sit this one out in my '996 with a mere 42k miles on it and laugh at the arm chair quarterbacking. (Those with knowledge and actual track seat time, I tip my hat to.)
#112
I would disagree... in fact, the base car makes the most financial sense. Consider the guy who paid $150k for a new turbo that is worth $100k in 3yrs. A 50k hit. I paid $76k for my brand new 2009 base 911 in 11/2008 and just sold it for $65k nearly 3 1/2 years later for a loss of 11k. A lightly optioned base car will depreciate less than any alternative in the line up which is one of the reasons I buy them.
I would also disagree that "ponies are everything". A Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby or whatever they call it may have 500 bhp but is it a more rewarding drive than any 997/991 base/S or GT3 all of which have significantly less hp? I think not. A 1973 2.7 Carrera RS had what? something like 235hp? yet it is widely regarded as one of the best 911's of all time.
I would also disagree that "ponies are everything". A Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby or whatever they call it may have 500 bhp but is it a more rewarding drive than any 997/991 base/S or GT3 all of which have significantly less hp? I think not. A 1973 2.7 Carrera RS had what? something like 235hp? yet it is widely regarded as one of the best 911's of all time.
That said, I have to agree that with the 911, the "purists" are not going to go with the base model or even the S model. The rich purists will wait for the new GT3 and Turbo. The not-so-rich purists will wait for the new GT3 and Turbo and then find a used 996 or 997 version of the GT3 and Turbo that will have magically depreciated. And the true purists like their cars air-cooled.......
Last edited by RUBINROT; 03-20-2012 at 07:56 PM.
#113
A friend of mine was testing this for an article he's writing and took me for a drive. I honestly still way prefer the Cayman to the 991 (just feels more alive) but that's personal. Not a knock against the 991 if that's what you like (it is much faster). BTW, Sport Exhaust is incredible on the 991. It completely transforms the experience.
Took the cover off inside the front hatch. Wonder if that black thing in the lower left hand side is the new electric steering:
Took the cover off inside the front hatch. Wonder if that black thing in the lower left hand side is the new electric steering:
#114
This was 100% my experience also. I did not care for it after having 996 and 997s. I have never drank the panamera coolaid either. Sorry I hate it, hate it hate it. I think I will keep my GT3 or upgrade to a 3.8 or 4.0. 991 is not in my future. I am reluctantly more excited about the new Gt500 than the new 991 GT3....sad.
#115
aamersa - I just had to chime in here. You really should learn more about cars if you plan to post on message boards - particularly Porsche boards. As someone said earlier, these guys know more about cars than the salesmen.
Now, let me let you in on a little secret. When you floor your beloved 991 with all it's massive hp and torque, you are not getting 100% of it. The electronics won't let you. The way a 991, 997 and most modern cars handle power is by metering it out in such a way that the driver, chassis and tires can handle it. Porsche has gone the way of most manufacturers in loading their cars up with all sorts of wizardry (traction control, yaw control, launch control, etc.) all designed to keep you from killing yourself. So more power, probably isn't going to do you or me any good. Some guy in a white lab coat in Stuttgart saw to that.
Do yourself a favor. Go find someone with an '87-89 Carrera and give it a go. I'm sure you can find someone willing to trade seats with you for a few minutes. It won't have airbags, anti-lock brakes, power steering or traction control to get in the way of the driving experience. No, the power is not jaw dropping, but the dynamics are unlike anything you have probably ever experienced.
Now, let me let you in on a little secret. When you floor your beloved 991 with all it's massive hp and torque, you are not getting 100% of it. The electronics won't let you. The way a 991, 997 and most modern cars handle power is by metering it out in such a way that the driver, chassis and tires can handle it. Porsche has gone the way of most manufacturers in loading their cars up with all sorts of wizardry (traction control, yaw control, launch control, etc.) all designed to keep you from killing yourself. So more power, probably isn't going to do you or me any good. Some guy in a white lab coat in Stuttgart saw to that.
Do yourself a favor. Go find someone with an '87-89 Carrera and give it a go. I'm sure you can find someone willing to trade seats with you for a few minutes. It won't have airbags, anti-lock brakes, power steering or traction control to get in the way of the driving experience. No, the power is not jaw dropping, but the dynamics are unlike anything you have probably ever experienced.
#116
Nice one from Joepack. That obviously begs the question as to why people still try to squeeze another smidgens of power / handling/ sensation out of their late-model cars and exorbitant cost per incremental result. The law of diminishing returns is blatantly present everywhere. And the answer is.. because we are car guys. Just buy a cart for 10K, a trailer for 2 K and a towing hook and you are in business. And, do take that silly smile of your face when you'are being outclassed and outnumbered by your 125 CC engined pocket rocket.
#118
The Grand Touring thing has been greatly exaggerated. Go drive a 991 around a track around the street and on the track for a week and tell me if you'd rather have the 997.
#120
I've tracked the 991 briefly, but it was too slow and brief to judge the car. But I've compared the 997 and 991 on the road back to back many times, at substantial speeds (), and I personally find the 997 to be more fun. It doesn't handle as well, to the extent of sometimes feeling a bit 'scary' compared to the 991, but that's part of the fun, and of course the 997's limits are still very high. Moreover, IMO the 997 communicates more and feels more alive, especially at low to medium speeds, whereas the 991 needs to be going fast to feel alive.
I have exactly the same issue with the Cayman R. The thing is so planted and capable that it feels bored at road speeds, so I feel bored too. But these characteristics are virtues on the track, where the car shines (I've tracked it about 50 days).