I agree. Silly of them to make this steering change for minimal gain in efficiency. Steering is among the most important aspects of a sports car. They should be making it better, not worse.

 

Believe me, it has crossed my mind. If the boxster laps the n ring in 7:58, then the cayman will probably lap it in 7:54. Since I don't plan on adding pdcc, then it would lap the n ring in 7:44, which is about a 10 sec difference. It is just starting to become hard to justify paying twice the price. Mainfold talked about value in the 991 GT3 deposit thread, and I guess what I am trying to say is that I just don't agree with the valuation of the 991 when there is a cheaper alternative (not substitute). I am just having a hard time swallowing the 120k price tag when I want to pay around 100k for a decently equipped carrera s 991.

These are emotional purchases (obviously it is doing a number on me ), but right now without sitting in the new 981 cayman s I have my heart set on a 991s.

It is just so frustrating...I don't know what the cost of developing the electric steering system is. This is just a wild speculation since I don't know the cost to research and build the new system. But I would guess that it is cheaper than the hydraulic steering system and they made that move in order to save money and to increase profit. Just thinking about it, for me it wouldn't make sense for a company to sink millions in order to save one measly mpg. It just smells a little fishy to me and things aren't adding up. I don't know.

Again...just thinking out loud here. Don't crucify me.

 

I assume you have driven the new 991 then?

I should point out that there is no point in bashing the new steering system if you have not actually driven it and felt its benefits.

For what its worth, as a 991 owner, I freaking love the new system. It still has plenty of feel to it and is very responsive.

I feel like some of you are like these "true sports car hipsters" that resist change in everything that has something to do with better fuel economy.


Get over it guys, its here to stay.

 

Yes, I've driven the 991S. The steering is pretty good, but I think it's better in the 997. I can live with the 991 steering, but my point was that Porsche should be improving this stuff, or at least keeping it the same.

 

And you are not alone...chris harris saying the same...as did the evo guy

You can live with it if you want a 991 and it isn"t bad at all......unless you wait like catch myshadow says for a later version and maybe see if they go back to a more hydraulic feel

 

I won't be surprised if they make a lot of changes with the GT3 to address these complaints with the 991. It may be the car many of us are hoping for. I just hope the pricing is tolerable. Otherwise, a used 997 GT3 remains an appealing option.

BTW, got the iPad 3 yesterday and the resolution is awesome. Unfortunately the resolution of the car mags isn't that high yet.

 

same here...iPad 3 with ATT

gt3 991 is going to be allot of coin....lots at stake at the track...a used 997 gt3 sounds better at this point.

 

Manifold i'd love to be able to help you in your plight against the new car but to be perfectly honest you are truly clutching at straws with this. My best advice is to take your 2012 car down to the dealer, take your medicine and get into a 991S and move on. You'll feel so much better for yourself afterward. I don't know what car you were driving when you arrived at your conclusion the 997 is a better car, but all i can say if wasn't in a modded turbo with all that extra power i would have parked it there and then. The 991 is simply a better car than 997 everywhere. This whole toss off on the steering is just that. Where is has lost some of the niggly feel (and i say niggly) it has gained in giving the car better composure when you need it. i.e. over course irregular bitumen, irregular surfaces that would previously be felt more prominently, but in a bad way. And i say in a bad way because the steering can deviate during those moments in a corner whereas with the new steering the car feels planted throughout the irregularity. That to me is a far better trait to have in a high performance car that can travel at the speeds it does in those instances. You may need to go back and re appraise the situation in the right driving environment.

 

I completely agree. I think Manifold pulled the trigger on a new Porsche in the worst possible time. Did you not know that the 991 was around the corner? I would have kicked myself if I would have bought a face lifted 8-year-old car (997 C2S) months before the new 991 C2´s rolled out. As for the steering I will have to completely agree with you speed!

 

Agree likewise here Johtaja. It's a sad reality that whatever must going on with a few of these 997 guys is just sour grapes from blowing their wad on the old platform. I mean after comparing the two cars what else could it possibly be? The only remedy is to take their medicine and move on gracefully. I'm all for discussing certain things in a hope of arriving at mutually agreeable conclusions but boxing on with this nonsense is just futile and plain silly.

 

calm down guys, both, the 991 and 997, are great cars.
many carmaniacs would seriously consider to give away one of their kidneys to own either one of them. i like all generations and i am still delighted when i see some 996s or older ones on the road. no matter which generation, they all have their special appeal.

 

CMS, I've got to be one of the biggest car maniacs in the business but even i have to concede the obvious here. And that's not taking anything away from 997 as it's a great car as i keep saying. I also own one myself as you can see and I enjoy every solitary moment behind the wheel. I don't think anyone is getting unsettled, well i hope not, coz I'm not, but as entertaining as it has been i do get a little weary of the same old argument being put up by the same guys over the same old things. I can't answer for boxster but where 991 is concerned this whole steering issue is a furphy.

 

you guys are so off base its...but think what you want...its amusing.

as funny as those who put down base buyers when the "S" is such a better car...how can anyone be so stupid to buy a base car.

or cab buyers because real men drive coupes.

or PDK buyers because they can't shift or heel toe or do more than turn a freak'n steering wheel.

or PDCC buyers because they have no clue how to drive and balance a car...

You make one argument that its a personnel choice on some issues but not for others..you cool-aid drinking guys crack me up..and we are the ones believing our own BS.

Nothing I have written about the 991 is much different then several reviews that have come out. Its a great car but you need to push it to really feel its sports car. Including Chris Harris who's not sure he would take the 991 over the 981.

Enjoy your car, I know I enjoy mine and will do so every day. I'll track it about 20 days this year....how many days you going to track yours? Because you know real porsche owners track their cars.

bye.

 

And I'd have to agree with that as do a million other people. The Boxster (and Cayman) rear ends have always been pug fugly. The rear end now looks more like the Toyota MR2 that came out shortly after the Boxster and was clearly styled on it.

It sounds like everybody posting how the 991 costs twice what a Boxster does are saying you should get a vastly superior car with the 991. That's not how car pricing works. It's a decreasing curve where every dollar you spend gets you less and less. The engineering that goes into making a car 1% better (read: faster lap times) when you get over $50k is quite a bit. The engineering that goes into making a car 1% better when you get over $100k is probably at least 10 times as much, if not a lot more.

Personally, I've never come close to comfortably fitting into a Boxster, so the argument is moot for me.

The other thing I haven't seen anybody say, other than making a point that the car feels more stable and planted with electric steering, is that some of us like the tail happy characteristics of the 911. It's the key thing that makes the car unique in the world. I don't want a car that feels perfectly solid but disconnected. I've always held the opinion that if you've never put your 911 sideways in a corner, you've never really driven your car.

I realize that many 911 come decked out with a ton of options, but even at 120k you're talking about a 911S with a ton of options. A great car with the main things you want can be had for a lot less than that. And that's sticker price, which means you can cut $5k off that easy. For $130k out of pocket you're getting a 911S with about $40k of just options.

At that point, you can but a used GT3 or 911S and easily mod it to have a car that will trounce the new one on a track. What it really comes down to is whether you want a fast car that handles great on a track, or whether you want the latest car with all of the latest bells and whistles and styling. For people who want pure performance, buying a used one is the obvious choice (unless you have money to burn, which some people do!).

Comparing the Boxster and Cayman to the 911 is joint pointless IMHO. They're very different cars. Porsche has been massaging the tail-happy nature of the 911 out of it, but it's still there, and for some people that's the whole point.

 

"The Boxster (and Cayman) rear ends have always been pug fugly."

I think that the Cayman rear is awesome looking. Especially the R with the fixed wing looks incredible.

Now, I am not too sure about the new Boxster's tail light "spoiler" crease. I can only assume that will carry over onto the next Cayman.