According to the spec, the 991 base has about the same 0-60 time (.1 second slower) as my current '09 997S so it couldn't feel too slow. Can't wait to hear your review.

ChuckJ

 

I am just a Turbo guy. Love the grunt and explosive power from the get-go. I happen to have 3 turbo cars in my garage. Unbridled power at any speed. I signed up for that. Loud exhausts... not so much, you can get that with an amplifier and a speaker box so it seems!!

 

LOL. This is . Low end torque? Yeah, the 991 S makes as much torque as a BMW or Mercedes V8 from just a generation ago. 325 lb-ft, in a very light car, not enough for you?

Oh yeah there’s no torque at all, riiiight...that’s why it can do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Uh huh. Silly reviewers. Gearing is PRECISELY what produces torque to the wheels. It multiplies engine torque. That's what it does. That's what it exists for. The 991 particularly with PDK – trust me – has very aggressive gearing in 1st/2nd. You will never complain about torque. Again, this car weighs WAY less than almost all its competition and other ~400ish horsepower cars.

 

Your comments don't address the point. No one has said that the 991 lacks high-end torque, which can be exploited by keeping the revs high. The issue is the lack of torque at lower revs (under about 4,000), which is indeed the case. Drive a car with a big V8 and the difference will be night and day.

 

They don't need to address the point; Because Porsche itself does. You want more low-end torque? Oh, they got a few other model variants for you for that ... and a few more coming up! No offense, but you have to pay more. Not good enough? Well, are we to have excellence and in many cases class-leadership in so many categories, AND demand gobs of low-end torque, even more exclusivity, even more visual fireworks, etc. etc.? Sure, pay up. We have a model or two for you.

Having said all that (which is sufficient) - name a production engine out there that's under 4L that clearly produces more torque, even under 3000 rpm. I know, we cannot, but I also know you will want to say that is not the point, which is, they should stuff a big honkin' V8 in there. Well, you will compromise a few things that I think you wouldn't prefer to, namely the shape that is possible. Chevy can easily fit 7L under that Corvette hood.

 

Two things. First, peak torque has moved higher up in the rev range compared to the 997, so that's a step backwards. I think the main (or only) reason that happened is to get higher fuel economy. Second, while I agree that a V8 likely won't fit in there, a 4.0L did fit in the 997, and something bigger still should fit in the 991, given the longer wheelbase.

 

What situation are you worried about lacking low end torque in, and why can't you just fix that by downshifting? For normal highway driving the car has plenty of torque even in 6th at 70 mph for pulling out and passing.

 

Yes, the peak torque point in the updated motor has gone upwards in the rpm range, but take a look at page 13 of 49 in the 991 brochure (avail for download on Porsche USA's website). 250 lb-ft at 2000 rpm. That's almost as much as the peak torque that the 996 Carrera produced, a car that is heavier than the 991 ... with taller gearing (more on that, again, in a sec). 270 lb-ft at 3000 rpm and 280 at 4000rpm. For a car that weighs this little, that's hardly "not enough torque", sorry to say. Most importantly to the above argument vs the 997, that car in S guise produced its max 295 @ 4600 rpm. Look at the graph of the 991 S output. It's producing almost 320 lb-ft at that rpm...

Give me a TRUE sports car (not one of the plethora of wannabe GT cruisers with 2 doors and a bunch of sporting badges) with an engine that delivers the party from 4000 to ~8000 rpm any day, over one that does so from 1000-4000 or even 5000 mainly.

Also I say it again: Less weight, and aggressive gearing, both of which the 991 has, will give you a stronger shove in the back for the same output at any rpm. 3,075 lbs. That's what the manual car weighs. Somehow, I doubt the 1500-4000 rpm torque output in such a car will disappoint.

 

Dealer called and I got to drive exactly that today - a 91k base MT. No SC, no PASM, no PDCC, nothing... oh, it did have the Power Steering Plus (go figure...) and it is not as compliant as one would think.

I believe the 991 was designed around all of the electronic nannies of late. It was quite a different experience from the fully optioned S with PDK that I drove 2 weeks ago. And definitely no where near the experience of the RS with GMG WC bits last week.

In the base MT, the lack of low end torque is significant to the point where I am surprised at the effort it took to get cruising. Granted I had the Sales and my daughter in the car, but it was quite noticeable. And no, we are not the heavy-set types. All up we are probably less than 375 lbs for 3 passengers.

Then we jumped right into an S cab with all the goodies and PDK then all was well again! The sound, the response, the shifts, the tightness, the supple ride, the works...

According to the dealer and whether true or not, PDCC and MT were not normal items ordered in the past few years. With current gen PDK, Porsche fully anticipates a major shift of sales from MT to PDK in the future.

For a base MT, I think one should consider adding SC and PASM in these cars.

 

I haven't compared the torque curves side by side, but the Autocar article noted that the base 991 engine is 0.2L smaller, has the same peak torque, and hits the peak torque 1,000 rpm higher, as compared to the base 997.

I do find both the 991 base and S to lack low-end torque, but this isn't a fatal flaw, since the revs can be kept sufficiently high with both MT and PDK.

 

Shift down, problem solved

 

I don't know about PDK since I don't have one but I am seeing threads recently on the lack of low end torque and issues (or mild complaints) about the low end gearing.

Its not just reviewers.

 

sure..we hear how great PDK is but only in certain modes? and revs?

 

Wait for the Turbo or Turbo S then this subject will be over.

 

Sort of ... the issue will still be there for the base and S cars, and the turbos will be priced beyond the range of many people.