No vendetta at all. I follow the 911 evolution from the 901 model. The 991 is the 7th gen. My POV has always been that the 991 is a great sports car no holds-barred, but it is no longer a '911'. The chassis differences, longer WB (the largest single increase in 6 gens) and a wider track, radically change the driving dynamics. There are many 911 fans - those who like its go-kart dynamics, those who like its shape, those who like its power, etc. I fit in the 1st category, but I know that others fit in others. The 991 pretty much drives like a mini Panamera. Its vestigial pendulum effect is only noticed at insanely high limits. You may like that, others do not.

Therefore, my posts represent the 11 fan group who like the unique 11 driving dynamics - pendulum dynamics and driver-centric feedback. Great car, but different. The PSDS group post I cross-posted complains about performance - I am not worried about that - suspension tweaks will fix that.

Between purchasing a $140k 991 or a $200k Singer I will get the Singer. YMMV.

I am not putting down the 991. I am expressing a POV shared by many 911 fans. This is an open forum, all points of view should be posted, otherwise new readers will see biased opinions, don't you think?

 

Adias: "This is an open forum, all points of view should be posted, otherwise new readers will see biased opinions, don't you think? "

I totally agree. Sapster wanted to know the goal. I'll tell you. It is sharing information. I read every single post on the 958 and the prior gen Cayenne (well almost) before I bought my SUV. So when a potential 991 buyer enters this section of the forum, he will appreciate both Sapster's thread with a link to Top Gear's glowing review for the 991 and this one from Adias that has a link to some very good information on the 991 vs 997.
As a 997 owner, I should'nt have to fear posting any negative reviews of the 991 here ... or based on the follow-up posts on this thread ... should I ?

 

This hits the nail on the head.

No denying that the 991 is fast, and fairly comfortable for a sports car. But the issue is whether it's still a 911, in terms of the essential core characteristics which have been unique to the 911 for half a century, namely the driving dynamics and feedback to the driver. On that basis, so far I'm inclined to say that the 991 has deviated too much to still be called a 911. A great car, even at these prices, but perhaps no longer a 911. I'll do more test drives in the hope that more seat time and more variants will eventually change my mind, since in my heart I want to believe that the 911 still lives.

And people need to rise above this sensitivity over critical evaluation of the car. It's a car, not a person, and we should be able to discuss it openly. People don't have to agree in their preferences and opinions, but everyone should be able to express their views without fear of emotional reactions. Otherwise, the forum will indeed gravitate towards 'groupthink'.

 

But you are not posting your own opinion when you display a post written by someone else who is absent from the discussion . That's what cross posting does . It is a deliberate presentation of a one sided discussion (even if it was praise). In my opinion it only serves as a deflection and a disruption .

Furthermore an opinion is not a fact .

Like youself I had reservations with this car (or any car for that matter that goes through a change ) . Unlike you I kept an open mind , considered the GTR, the 991S , keeping my 997 S , or simply selling the 997S and having one less car .
In short i looked at my choices ... examined each of them further and made my own decision (based on my own opinion .. not someone elses) .

 

One could easily cite the same argument when Porsche moved away from air cooled 911 cars with the 993 being the last of them . The question is do you want to cling to tradition or move in the direction of actually beating the GTR . Not to mention that at 200+K for a Turbo S or Gt3RS 4.0 there are cars like Mclaren coming to the the table as well.

It's to be seen yet if the 991tt and Gt3 models will take the lead but the 997 would have its rear end wiped by the 13 GTR and the owner can wag his tail with another 100K in savings too .

The 911 had to change . It would have lost had it stayed the same .

 

Larry I still wish you had gotten the GT3RS last year. With your TT, the RS would have been a great addition. I am going to drive the 991 this weekend as Barrier Porsche has the drive in the NW road event. They will have the 991 and the Panamera GTS. I think they both are very close to each other. One is a high performance sports coupe aimed at luxury/comfort and the other is a uber powerful sedan with a high sporty DNA content.

 

1. itīs a luxurious sports car and NOT a sporty GT.
2. itīs still clearly a 911 (shape, engine placement) but without the typical rear engine quirkiness of the past.
3. itīs always the same when a (totally) new 911 arrives, same reactions and complaints.

so, did Porsche something wrong with the new generation, being safer, more comfortable, more fuel efficient, more digital and less tricky?
No, cause a 911 is not for the chosen few (anymore), it needs to attract the widest range of potential customers.
otherwise: no future 911s anymore!

 

Funny! Wasn't the Cayenne and later the Panamera supposed to be the practical/compromise vehicles to save the 911? Guess not.

The '911' is not only the shape and engine placement. Even shape-wise the 991 is closer to an XK or an Aston; its design is far less timeless. And when the 991 drives like a MB/BMW/Aston, it is no longer a 911. It may look like one, but it isn't. Enjoy your tame, comfortable, safe GT!

 

Nothing surprising here. The reactions are always the same whenever a new generation of 911 is introduced. There is no "true" 911, they are all different, all are better or worse in some area. Never the less, time moves on, and you can either get on the bus, or savor the features that make the last generation your favorite. No right or wrong.

That's what makes a horse race, as they say.

 

The Cayenne in particular has financially saved the 911īs **** a while ago and ist still financing it, but i think itīs common sense that the more 911 sales the better for the future of the 911 and you can`t do that by producing hardcore 911s only.

oh come on, if you think that the 991 is visually closer to a XK or Aston than a 997 you seriously need to get your eyes checked imho.
the new 911 is more comfy and civilised thatīs true, if thatīs a problem then wait for the GT3 or throw some aftermarket (track) parts (sharper suspension etc. ) in it.

word!

 

+1 .
How long before he sells the 997S ?

 

my thoughts as well.

i don`t like everything about the new 991 but overall itīs close to the perfect balance of modernism and tradition.
as bluehinder said, every new generation is better in some departments but also worse in others. change is a cruel thing i know.
itīs all natural, time moves on and you can`t have it all.

 

Sure we can have it all. There are pristine classic models original or fully restored easily available. Many fetching a price higher than a factory fresh car. And then there's Singer. Inflection points can do that, open up other options.






Lots of great 911 choices.

 

okay you got me with the Singer one, one of my favourites, but even with all those 993 parts itīs still an old school 911 and only satisfies the needs of a very small community.

 

One can not compare buying a classic car with someone elses opinion on the current modern one .