i should have said: "many people are still allergic" cause that´s what i meant,
of course i don`t mean all of them.

 

Yes, a controlled experiment means comparing 911S cars back to back which are identical except for the difference of having or not having PDCC.

 

More data:

996

Wheelbase: 92.5
Front track: 57.7
Rear track: 59.1

So identical wheelbase to the 997, and about 1" narrower tracks.

 

Thanks for posting the PDCC article. I know for a fact my 991 handles certain turns better and at higher speed then my 997 did. I assumed, perhaps in light of the article, incorrectly, that this was because of PDCC. In thinking about it more, it could just be improvements in the 991 in general over the 997 and/or the fact that I now drive a coupe and my 997 was a cab. It could be bigger contact patches of the bigger tires.

And it is unlikely I will ever do the comparison myself to isolate the difference and isolate how much the PDCC contributes. But there are Porsche people that I trust who think it makes a big difference and I am glad to have it. Whatever the reason, the car is great in turns - my 997 was great as well, but this is noticeably better. And I still will not trust it on a wet road because I still tend to react by tapping the breaks and all 911s are still hammers thrown handle first.

 

With pricing at a roughly a 20 percent increase just for the 991S I can only imagine what the GT3 and Turbo will cost . I may have opted the same route and waited . In fact i did table it with the dealership and expressed that if i buy the 991S then i would retain my Turbo and not be able to buy the Turbo . In short i did keep one of my two 997 cars and opted to merely taste the 991 with an "S " rather than feast on it with a Turbo .

If you opt to wait .. expect to pay 100+K plus your car to make the Gt3 and well over it for a Turbo . I have this feeling you will write even more reviews at that time

 

I saw the article and still ordered the car with PDCC . First I tend to view auto journaists as being somewhat biased as they do write for their paycheck . I also felt that while reading the article it reminded me of some of the forum members here who opt to cling to an older concept of the 911 (which BTW is losing in lap times to cars like the GTR with all its gadgets) .

The bottom line -- Porsche rigorously tests their cars under al types of conditions and with a variety of drivers ranging from pro level to amateur .
They did not just make up PDCC for a quick buck . It was meant to enhance "performance' and is listed as such in their configurator . One can cling to old school ideology or move with the times .

I am moving forward with Porsche and that includes haviing PDCC on my car .

as for the auto journalists .. maybe they ought to post what cars they in their garages instead of what they drive for an hour to get their take home pay. .

 

I think the major benefit of PDCC is that, by enabling the car to corner flatter, it gives the driver the sensation of much greater grip. The upside of this is that it might encourage most drivers to use more of the car's capability. The downside is that less warning of approaching the limits is given, which could put a more reckless driver in a bad place.

I suspect that the actual grip increase provided by PDCC is relatively small, and not something most drivers would have the skill or courage to tap into. And the car without PDCC doesn't roll much anyway.

PDCC may also provide more comfort under normal driving, but I don't know, and the car without PDCC seems comfortable enough to me.

 

It took me a while to wrap my head around the idea of spending more than $100K on a car, but the deed is done now, so the next psychological barrier is $150K. I'm hopeful that a 991 GT3 could be gotten for less than that, especially given that I don't generally need a lot of options.

But there's no hurry or compulsion to make any changes. The cars I currently have are great, and something really appealing needs to come along to make me want to replace the 997. If that doesn't happen, I'm not averse to keeping the 997 for a decade or more. Given the leap into the future entailed by the 991, it's quite possible that the 997 could eventually develop a status comparable to the 993, which would help it to retain value.

 

Manifold, I think you have a very valid point. Today I visited one of the major Porsche dealers in the Bay area. They had very few new 991's around but they did have one of the new cabs. That is looking good but remarkably bigger on the outside than the old 997 cab. What amazed me was the huge space behind the rear wheels as you look straight at the muffler. There is no inner lining that keeps the junk ( water / stones/ gravel ) away from the underneath of the car. It is just OPEN and EXPOSED. Also, I still do not see some protection to the front radiators. How expensive would it have been to put some grill work in the air openings. I am not getting it!!
So, on display a 2009 YELLOW / Black Turbo 997 - cab with 34k miles on the tach for a measerly 102K, and another yr 2012 997.2 Carrera S Cab in red with back interior for a lofty 134K. A dizziying 35% additional dollars for the options. The mind boggles!!

 

Very interesting front track/rear track wheelbase comparison numbers. It's crazy to see that the 991 actually has a wider front track then rear track!

Guess that fat rear end is just an optical illusion, the front is actually wider than the rear!

 

[quote=Manifold;3529776]I think the major benefit of PDCC is that, by enabling the car to corner flatter, it gives the driver the sensation of much greater grip. ...[quote]

Went back again to test both an S and a Cab S Saturday morning. Went in at 9:30 and didn't leave till 2PM.

Both had PDK, PSE, PDCC, PASM, Sport Chrono, Premium Package Plus with Adaptive Sport Seats Plus, power steering plus, sport design steering wheel, etc... went up the hill at 100mph in both with all settings off and then on, launched both cars and cruised downhill as well.

My order for a platinum silver 991S with June/July build and August delivery in the order of importance is...

PDCC/PASM/Sport Chrono - with full settings, its still not as raw as the GTs but a great DD. Keep in mind, raw driving feel to me does not equate to a faster car, but rather a more direct feel closer to karting. Whether the settings are on/off, its civil enough for those long days back from the office.

PSE - that popping and burbling sound is JUUUUSST TO DIE FOR!!! I would see about keeping the PSE on at all times. Maybe it will be a simple disconnect of a plug like the GT3s. And my kid said the 991 is actually louder than the GT3 as we drove home. I wonder if I can get it to spit flames too... SWEEEEEET...

PDK - this was a toughy. I had originally settled on waiting for the MT, but after test driving PDKs again at full song and then slow crusing speeds, its just that much sweeter and a design triumph for Porsche. I had 6MTs before and with 7 gears to row, it might get a bit tiresome. I will save the MT for the GT3/RS next year.

Sport Design Steering Wheel - I believe buttons do not belong at the 9-3 locations. Too easy to press incorrectly. I would probably look for a pair of longer paddles similar to Ferrai's to replace the standard ones.

Sunroof in Glass - the opening for sunroof is quite large and the regular roof opens only 35% of the available space. For a few hundred more, I decide to go with the glass roof that can utilize more of the opening. Either you want a sunroof or you don't. And since I do, I am ordering the glass roof. I understand there are structural issues with such a choice, but for a DD, its not as important. I will opt-out when the GT3s come out. Really looking forward to this glass-domed or targa feel in this intimate cabin.

Burmester - an intriguing option, had BOSE in other cars and wanted to try something more. At $2600 more than the BOSE option, its not a difficult yes.

20in Sport Classic Wheels - personal preference. They had one with HRE if I wanted, but the gap between the spokes were just too large for my taste. The rotors and calipers did not fill the space well.

Premium Pkg Plus w/ Adaptive Sports Seats Plus - definitely an expensive option at $6200, either I go all inclusive or not at all, so yes for now. With warm weather out here, the ventilated seats cooled down my back very efficiently, especially around the neck areas. Other features are nice-to-haves. The additional seat adjustment between 14 vs 18 ways are not as crucial as the shoulder supports. Everytime I lean back, my shoulders were very comfortable. At $1700 more than the Prem Pkg Plus for the additional adjustments and shoulder supports, its a toss-up but yes for now.

Two-Tone Leather - personal choice, agate/pepper grey.

Auto Start/Stop - this is one feature that I really don't care for. Its just rough coming back on every single time and had a slight delay. Not sure if its because of the low miles or the vehicle's not broken in, but I am happy that the button is there for me to keep it off at all times and does not cost anything to be there...

Power Steering Plus - hmmm... great for Caddies of yor and not light enough for 1-finger turning here, so I am confused why its even offered. Did not go for it.

Other features like alum window trims, park assist, folding mirrors, belts, red gauges, etc... are toss ups...

I have until late May to close the build so... that's it for now.

It does get up there, but I don't think we will get back to the prices back in 2008/9. It will only go up from here. I am fully expecting the 991 GT3/RS to hit 180k when it arrives 2 years from now. And it will still be atleast 100k+ cheaper than the 458's.

The dealership also had a 430 with 5000 miles for 145k and an RS with 2200 miles for 134k. But I think as much as I pined for the RS, I would wait for the 991 RS instead. Letting go of the 430 was a lot tougher... its simply a more exotic choice but not a practical DD for me.

 

Curious whether the car can be programmed to have auto start/stop disengaged as the default setting. Rather then having to press the button to turn it off EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. you get in if you don't like it?

 

Others may chime in to confirm. I believe once Auto Start/Stop is selected, it stays off or will turn-off when Sport/Sport Plus is selected. You do not need to press the button everytime.

This feature was great and less noticeable in Panamera or Cayenne because those engines were tuned to be smoother. But with 991 especially with PSE, its like kick starting a bull everytime.

Personally, I think it detracts from the excitement of hearing the roar of a silent engine coming to life, because it made those rare (or just in my mind) moments common.

 

You 997 guys crack me up....
The 991 is better behaved on the track, and produces faster lap times, and for some of you that is a bad thing in a sports car? That is like a Formula 1 racer going into the pit, and telling the race crew that the car is too perfect, and asking for them to change the angle of the front wing so the car has more understeer and is more difficult to drive around the track fast.... ?!?!?!?!?
Oh yeah, and the 991 interior is nicer, and the ride is better on less than perfect roads - which somehow is a bad thing in a world class luxury sports car????

 

Why not then increase the wheelbase another 4", front track another 2", rear track another 1", and move the engine farther forward for more equal weight distribution, so that the car is faster yet and less like a classic 911? Better yet, forget the token of a back seat and make it a proper mid-engined car instead of preserving the obsolete rear-engine layout which everyone knows makes no sense. Who cares how the car feels dynamically, or the feedback and interaction it offers to the driver? Fast, stable, and comfy is all that matters, right?