All,
I saw something today in my town that put a great number of the thread discussions I have been in lately into proper perspective, for me at least.
No offence to Manifold or others, but there is no objective argument that the 991 is a 911 and every bit as much of one as any prior version. There is no objective argument that the 991 is an improvement over the 997 in many, many ways. What we are discussing, arguing, debating, is all in the subjective - I like mine better because it is mine. Yours in not as good because mine is smaller or more hydraulic (steering) or less hydraulic (PDCC) or has cheap buttons (they are, I agree) …blah, blah, blah. And, of course, there are the ever elusive arguments of "purity" and driver dynamic - good luck with those. The only problem is when we seek to justify our choice as better than someone else's based on such alleged differences.
Case in point, today, is a beautiful, cool, clear day in New Jersey. I live in a town that has a classic downtown and is very picturesque - not at all what many of you might think of when you think of New Jersey. And it is an affluent community. Yesterday there was a new McClaren and a Lambo driving around. But today I saw…wait for it…a restored Yugo! What…Why…Gasp!
Forget a good reason, I can't think of a plausible bad reason to restore a Yugo. OK sure, they probably have the only one on their block, er…town, er…country. Really? It reminds me only that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and totally subjective and who am I to tell the owner that they are nuts and that their car is not as good as most riding mowers (a case I could probably make out on objective factors alone, but you get my point). And that is what I was concerned about with other's attempts to justify the superiority of their car, over mine, by subjective measures. Does that mean a GT-R is better than a 991 (or 997 for that matter). On many objective criteria, cost, 0-60, etc., probably. Would I rather have one? No! But that is just me.

 

Yes.

 

I see a Yugo as laughable irony that was the '80's answer to a gas price problem that didn't exist until 20 years later. It is a piece of history (not the good kind).

 

I think the debates can and do continue because evaluation of cars involves both objective and subjective elements. The objective aspects are what tempt some of us to assert that a car is objectively better overall, whereas the subjective aspects are what make others argue that objective overall rankings are impossible.

I'm satisified with saying that the 997 and 991 are both objectively outstanding cars, but they're significantly different variations on a general theme, so the choice between them is ultimately subjective.

And then there's the fuzziness aspect as well. Whether a car is a 'true 911' isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Maybe the truest 911 was the first one, and since then each generation has departed from the idealized form. But questions can still be raised regarding how much of a departure each generation represents.

To satisfy my own curiosity, I intend to look into the physical parameters of each generation going back to the first one, as well as drive as many of them as I can. Meanwhile, I do think the longer wheelbase, wider front track, more equal weight distribution, and less rear-engined feel of the 991 mean that the car entails a significant further step away from the original form. But even if some consider that to be a drawback, the benefit of the tradeoff appears to be faster and more stable handling, so it's not unreasonable for someone to choose the 991.

 

I know that some humor is intended in that, but if someone is willing to move further away from the classic 911 feel and embrace high-technology, I do think that the new GT-R is a serious contender to the 991. Yes, it's not a Porsche, but it also costs much less than a Porsche which delivers comparable performance.

 

To quote from the movie Dragnet - it was the cutting edge of Serbo-Croatian technology!

I think we can all agree that we would not want to own one, subjectively or objectively. But that is just us - right? One of my partners spent enough to buy either of our cars restoting his Fiero. To each his own.

 

NO way, when I give my impression of a car it is objectively the object of facts!!! HAHAHA

 

You can certainly do that. I, on the other hand, think I will go for a drive!

 

I did not mean to include you! Of course we take what you say as fact! Are you getting a Yugo?

 

Shouldn't you be working? Or am I the only who needs to be working right now rather than goofing off on 6speed (which is more fun)?

 

I keep threatening the wife with a Fiero...

Of all of the things that went wrong with Pontiac, that car had so much potential. (personal opinion - see 551 Spyder for reference)

 

But you are on the 6?

 

Threatening that you will drive it or make her drive it! At least, my partner probably has the only one in near mint condition! Possibly in the world! How many of us can say that? And it was his original car.

 

lol! I don't think either of us will actually drive it... I just want one.

Many good times were had in a Fiero...

 

It's good to hear that they are still around and people enjoy Yugos. I owned it's Italian cousin in high school - the Fiat 128! Just like you said, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. All the girls at school would compare my Fiat against a loaf of bread, saying the bread was more attractive. i didn't care!