Comparing the 911 (991, 997, etc.) with Exotics
#1
05-07-2012, 08:14 AM
Comparing the 911 (991, 997, etc.) with Exotics
To branch off from other recent threads, I'd be interested in hearing opinions on how the 911 compares with exotic supercars like Ferraris, Lambos, etc. (ie, opinions of people who've actually driven both categories of cars, not just read or heard about them).
Of course '911' covers a wide range, so I'm thinking 991S, 997S, 997 Turbo, and 997 GT3, which generally keeps the price under about $150K and limits it to two generations.
This topic has been discussed in the past, but I thought it would be good to revisit it, now that the 991 is out and apparently designed to deliver higher objective performance.
Addendum:
On second thought, feel free to throw different or older variants of the 911 into the mix. I'm likely in the market for a 993 or older, so I personally wouldn't mind reading those comparisons.
Of course '911' covers a wide range, so I'm thinking 991S, 997S, 997 Turbo, and 997 GT3, which generally keeps the price under about $150K and limits it to two generations.
This topic has been discussed in the past, but I thought it would be good to revisit it, now that the 991 is out and apparently designed to deliver higher objective performance.
Addendum:
On second thought, feel free to throw different or older variants of the 911 into the mix. I'm likely in the market for a 993 or older, so I personally wouldn't mind reading those comparisons.
Last edited by Manifold; 05-07-2012 at 06:49 PM.
#2
05-07-2012, 09:06 AM
I had always been a Corvette buyer and in 1996 I had a 1994 ZR-1 that disappointed me in many ways. I knew there was a new generation Corvette on the horizon, but I decided that, in the meantime, I would try either a 911 (993, a C4) or a Ferrari 355. I chose the 911 mostly because of the seating position and to a lesser degree, the turning radius.
Coming from a 405 hp Corvette to a 283 hp 911 was, at first, very disappointing. However, after getting used to the 911, I preferred its "wearability" for want of a better word. And it was solid and rattle-free. Still, the torque was a little light. So, back to the dealer for a 993TT. Wow! Unbelievable fast and very satisfying. Zero to 60 in the 4's, if you didn't miss a shift or bump the rev limiter. You were in first gear for less than 2 seconds. I loved that car for 2 years. It was not, however, very comfortable on a long trip. It was rough and pitched its weight around on uneven roads and more or less wore you out after 3 or 4 hours.
The 996 came out and one of its improvements was to the Tiptronic transmission. It went from 4 to 5 speeds if I remember correctly. Remembering the rev limiter episodes, I ordered the Tip. The horsepower had increased and the weight had decreased so I expected great improvements. I was disappointed so I traded for a 6-speed manual. Much better, but still lacking something. I thought about going back to a 993 Turbo but instead, I kept the 996 and bought a 355 Ferrari as a second car. The Ferrari was lightly used, not new, and had Tubi exhaust. I liked both cars and usually chose to drive the 996 over the 355 because of the ground clearance and the smoother, tighter ride. The 355 was so low that it scraped everywhere, even where you couldn't see the defect in the road.
I need to add something here. I was buying my cars in Dallas and living in Lubbock, Texas at the time. The altitude in Lubbock is 3,000 feet above sea level and it robs some power, a noticeable amount, from the performance of naturally aspirated cars.
The combination of a 996 and a 355 was a lot of fun. As I got used to both of them, I began using the 355 more than the 996. It was a rawer experience but the exhaust was the aphrodisiac. It could be played like a musical instrument. Absolutely intoxicating and never tiring. And the smaller size, even though it was a little rougher made a better fit. It was like wearing a car instead of driving it. And on a long trip it was poetry in motion. You could drive for hours at felony speeds with great comfort. But back to the altitude: neither the 996 nor the 355 had the satisfying torque and horsepower of the 993TT.
So I traded both in on a Ferrari 550 Maranello. A more grand tourer than the 355 and a brute 12 cylinder monster that was so controllable, you could steer with the steering wheel or the throttle. An amazing car. A comfortable car. And after I added Tubi exhaust, possibly the most amazing sound I had heard up to that point. However, if you hotrod it, the sound could be heard for miles and police could show up even if you weren't on the same street with them. I never got a ticket though because they seemed to want to look at the car rather than criticize my driving. I got a 911 Cabriolet for a daily driver.
When the 996TT came out I got one but I kept the 550 at the same time. Being new, the 996TT got most of my attention for a while. It was hard to say which was faster, but the 996TT was a better daily driver because it didn't attract as much attention either for its looks or its sound. I had a little trouble with the engine (oil leaks, both sides) and it was before the Bose was offered and the stereo was not that good. Porsche offered to give me a new TT when the Bose came out and I opted for the Tiptronic transmission again since it was considered faster than the manual and because the ultra short times in each gear seemed "frantic" to me. That's just me, OK? This car was the most trouble free car I had ever had.
I need to sign out now, but when I get back I will compare the 997's in normally aspirated and turbocharged, Ferrari 360 and Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari 430 and 458, and the 991.
Coming from a 405 hp Corvette to a 283 hp 911 was, at first, very disappointing. However, after getting used to the 911, I preferred its "wearability" for want of a better word. And it was solid and rattle-free. Still, the torque was a little light. So, back to the dealer for a 993TT. Wow! Unbelievable fast and very satisfying. Zero to 60 in the 4's, if you didn't miss a shift or bump the rev limiter. You were in first gear for less than 2 seconds. I loved that car for 2 years. It was not, however, very comfortable on a long trip. It was rough and pitched its weight around on uneven roads and more or less wore you out after 3 or 4 hours.
The 996 came out and one of its improvements was to the Tiptronic transmission. It went from 4 to 5 speeds if I remember correctly. Remembering the rev limiter episodes, I ordered the Tip. The horsepower had increased and the weight had decreased so I expected great improvements. I was disappointed so I traded for a 6-speed manual. Much better, but still lacking something. I thought about going back to a 993 Turbo but instead, I kept the 996 and bought a 355 Ferrari as a second car. The Ferrari was lightly used, not new, and had Tubi exhaust. I liked both cars and usually chose to drive the 996 over the 355 because of the ground clearance and the smoother, tighter ride. The 355 was so low that it scraped everywhere, even where you couldn't see the defect in the road.
I need to add something here. I was buying my cars in Dallas and living in Lubbock, Texas at the time. The altitude in Lubbock is 3,000 feet above sea level and it robs some power, a noticeable amount, from the performance of naturally aspirated cars.
The combination of a 996 and a 355 was a lot of fun. As I got used to both of them, I began using the 355 more than the 996. It was a rawer experience but the exhaust was the aphrodisiac. It could be played like a musical instrument. Absolutely intoxicating and never tiring. And the smaller size, even though it was a little rougher made a better fit. It was like wearing a car instead of driving it. And on a long trip it was poetry in motion. You could drive for hours at felony speeds with great comfort. But back to the altitude: neither the 996 nor the 355 had the satisfying torque and horsepower of the 993TT.
So I traded both in on a Ferrari 550 Maranello. A more grand tourer than the 355 and a brute 12 cylinder monster that was so controllable, you could steer with the steering wheel or the throttle. An amazing car. A comfortable car. And after I added Tubi exhaust, possibly the most amazing sound I had heard up to that point. However, if you hotrod it, the sound could be heard for miles and police could show up even if you weren't on the same street with them. I never got a ticket though because they seemed to want to look at the car rather than criticize my driving. I got a 911 Cabriolet for a daily driver.
When the 996TT came out I got one but I kept the 550 at the same time. Being new, the 996TT got most of my attention for a while. It was hard to say which was faster, but the 996TT was a better daily driver because it didn't attract as much attention either for its looks or its sound. I had a little trouble with the engine (oil leaks, both sides) and it was before the Bose was offered and the stereo was not that good. Porsche offered to give me a new TT when the Bose came out and I opted for the Tiptronic transmission again since it was considered faster than the manual and because the ultra short times in each gear seemed "frantic" to me. That's just me, OK? This car was the most trouble free car I had ever had.
I need to sign out now, but when I get back I will compare the 997's in normally aspirated and turbocharged, Ferrari 360 and Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari 430 and 458, and the 991.
#3
05-07-2012, 09:18 AM
To branch off from other recent threads, I'd be interested in hearing opinions on how the 911 compares with exotic supercars like Ferraris, Lambos, etc. (ie, opinions of people who've actually driven both categories of cars, not just read or heard about them).
Of course '911' covers a wide range, so I'm thinking 991S, 997S, 997 Turbo, and 997 GT3, which generally keeps the price under about $150K and limits it to two generations.
This topic has been discussed in the past, but I thought it would be good to revisit it, now that the 991 is out and apparently designed to deliver higher objective performance.
Of course '911' covers a wide range, so I'm thinking 991S, 997S, 997 Turbo, and 997 GT3, which generally keeps the price under about $150K and limits it to two generations.
This topic has been discussed in the past, but I thought it would be good to revisit it, now that the 991 is out and apparently designed to deliver higher objective performance.
You can really throw the car around with immediate reaction like any mid-engined exotic. No more waiting around for the car or slow-in fast-out silliness. In this respect, it is great leap forward.
#4
05-07-2012, 09:36 AM
I had always been a Corvette buyer and in 1996 I had a 1994 ZR-1 that disappointed me in many ways. I knew there was a new generation Corvette on the horizon, but I decided that, in the meantime, I would try either a 911 (993, a C4) or a Ferrari 355. I chose the 911 mostly because of the seating position and to a lesser degree, the turning radius.
Coming from a 405 hp Corvette to a 283 hp 911 was, at first, very disappointing. However, after getting used to the 911, I preferred its "wearability" for want of a better word. And it was solid and rattle-free. Still, the torque was a little light. So, back to the dealer for a 993TT. Wow! Unbelievable fast and very satisfying. Zero to 60 in the 4's, if you didn't miss a shift or bump the rev limiter. You were in first gear for less than 2 seconds. I loved that car for 2 years. It was not, however, very comfortable on a long trip. It was rough and pitched its weight around on uneven roads and more or less wore you out after 3 or 4 hours.
The 996 came out and one of its improvements was to the Tiptronic transmission. It went from 4 to 5 speeds if I remember correctly. Remembering the rev limiter episodes, I ordered the Tip. The horsepower had increased and the weight had decreased so I expected great improvements. I was disappointed so I traded for a 6-speed manual. Much better, but still lacking something. I thought about going back to a 993 Turbo but instead, I kept the 996 and bought a 355 Ferrari as a second car. The Ferrari was lightly used, not new, and had Tubi exhaust. I liked both cars and usually chose to drive the 996 over the 355 because of the ground clearance and the smoother, tighter ride. The 355 was so low that it scraped everywhere, even where you couldn't see the defect in the road.
I need to add something here. I was buying my cars in Dallas and living in Lubbock, Texas at the time. The altitude in Lubbock is 3,000 feet above sea level and it robs some power, a noticeable amount, from the performance of naturally aspirated cars.
The combination of a 996 and a 355 was a lot of fun. As I got used to both of them, I began using the 355 more than the 996. It was a rawer experience but the exhaust was the aphrodisiac. It could be played like a musical instrument. Absolutely intoxicating and never tiring. And the smaller size, even though it was a little rougher made a better fit. It was like wearing a car instead of driving it. And on a long trip it was poetry in motion. You could drive for hours at felony speeds with great comfort. But back to the altitude: neither the 996 nor the 355 had the satisfying torque and horsepower of the 993TT.
So I traded both in on a Ferrari 550 Maranello. A more grand tourer than the 355 and a brute 12 cylinder monster that was so controllable, you could steer with the steering wheel or the throttle. An amazing car. A comfortable car. And after I added Tubi exhaust, possibly the most amazing sound I had heard up to that point. However, if you hotrod it, the sound could be heard for miles and police could show up even if you weren't on the same street with them. I never got a ticket though because they seemed to want to look at the car rather than criticize my driving. I got a 911 Cabriolet for a daily driver.
When the 996TT came out I got one but I kept the 550 at the same time. Being new, the 996TT got most of my attention for a while. It was hard to say which was faster, but the 996TT was a better daily driver because it didn't attract as much attention either for its looks or its sound. I had a little trouble with the engine (oil leaks, both sides) and it was before the Bose was offered and the stereo was not that good. Porsche offered to give me a new TT when the Bose came out and I opted for the Tiptronic transmission again since it was considered faster than the manual and because the ultra short times in each gear seemed "frantic" to me. That's just me, OK? This car was the most trouble free car I had ever had.
I need to sign out now, but when I get back I will compare the 997's in normally aspirated and turbocharged, Ferrari 360 and Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari 430 and 458, and the 991.
Coming from a 405 hp Corvette to a 283 hp 911 was, at first, very disappointing. However, after getting used to the 911, I preferred its "wearability" for want of a better word. And it was solid and rattle-free. Still, the torque was a little light. So, back to the dealer for a 993TT. Wow! Unbelievable fast and very satisfying. Zero to 60 in the 4's, if you didn't miss a shift or bump the rev limiter. You were in first gear for less than 2 seconds. I loved that car for 2 years. It was not, however, very comfortable on a long trip. It was rough and pitched its weight around on uneven roads and more or less wore you out after 3 or 4 hours.
The 996 came out and one of its improvements was to the Tiptronic transmission. It went from 4 to 5 speeds if I remember correctly. Remembering the rev limiter episodes, I ordered the Tip. The horsepower had increased and the weight had decreased so I expected great improvements. I was disappointed so I traded for a 6-speed manual. Much better, but still lacking something. I thought about going back to a 993 Turbo but instead, I kept the 996 and bought a 355 Ferrari as a second car. The Ferrari was lightly used, not new, and had Tubi exhaust. I liked both cars and usually chose to drive the 996 over the 355 because of the ground clearance and the smoother, tighter ride. The 355 was so low that it scraped everywhere, even where you couldn't see the defect in the road.
I need to add something here. I was buying my cars in Dallas and living in Lubbock, Texas at the time. The altitude in Lubbock is 3,000 feet above sea level and it robs some power, a noticeable amount, from the performance of naturally aspirated cars.
The combination of a 996 and a 355 was a lot of fun. As I got used to both of them, I began using the 355 more than the 996. It was a rawer experience but the exhaust was the aphrodisiac. It could be played like a musical instrument. Absolutely intoxicating and never tiring. And the smaller size, even though it was a little rougher made a better fit. It was like wearing a car instead of driving it. And on a long trip it was poetry in motion. You could drive for hours at felony speeds with great comfort. But back to the altitude: neither the 996 nor the 355 had the satisfying torque and horsepower of the 993TT.
So I traded both in on a Ferrari 550 Maranello. A more grand tourer than the 355 and a brute 12 cylinder monster that was so controllable, you could steer with the steering wheel or the throttle. An amazing car. A comfortable car. And after I added Tubi exhaust, possibly the most amazing sound I had heard up to that point. However, if you hotrod it, the sound could be heard for miles and police could show up even if you weren't on the same street with them. I never got a ticket though because they seemed to want to look at the car rather than criticize my driving. I got a 911 Cabriolet for a daily driver.
When the 996TT came out I got one but I kept the 550 at the same time. Being new, the 996TT got most of my attention for a while. It was hard to say which was faster, but the 996TT was a better daily driver because it didn't attract as much attention either for its looks or its sound. I had a little trouble with the engine (oil leaks, both sides) and it was before the Bose was offered and the stereo was not that good. Porsche offered to give me a new TT when the Bose came out and I opted for the Tiptronic transmission again since it was considered faster than the manual and because the ultra short times in each gear seemed "frantic" to me. That's just me, OK? This car was the most trouble free car I had ever had.
I need to sign out now, but when I get back I will compare the 997's in normally aspirated and turbocharged, Ferrari 360 and Challenge Stradale, the Ferrari 430 and 458, and the 991.
#5
05-07-2012, 11:34 AM
The C6 Corvette is a good car, especially for the money. It beats a Boxster / Cayman for both performance creature comfort. It does not compare favorably with the 997 and especially the 991 for performance but it has many creature comforts that even the new 991 doesn't. The C7 is in development so we'll have to see what that brings.
ChuckJ
ChuckJ
#6
05-07-2012, 12:12 PM
Ferraris hold their value a little better than Porsches do unless there is a model change when it is time to get rid of it. Or unless there is a financial recession. The recession that occurred after the dot com collapse, exasperated by the world trade center collapse dropped the value of the 550 by a hundred thousand dollars. It seemed at first like a time to hold on to the 550 but when things didn't get any better for a while I decided to get rid of it. It was a great car, but compared to the 996TT, which was a better driver (and even though the Tubi exhaust on the 550 was a great sound, it limited where you might want to go late at night or anytime you wanted to be anonymous) the choice was to keep the Turbo. About this time the Cayenne came out. Now, I wasn't really interested because I had no desire for an SUV and didn't find it particularly attractive either. I was back to living in Dallas again, though, and when I had my 996TT in for service, they insisted I take a Cayenne S for a loaner. It was 105° outside and within 5 minutes the car had cooled off completely and the air conditioner was able to keep it cool with no problem. When I returned the car the next day I decided to get a Cayenne Turbo. It filled out the impracticalities of the limited cargo room and unusable rear seats of the 996TT. The two cars complemented each other well. The 996, however was leased (I usually don't do that) and when the time came to return it or buy it, I gave it back and decided to live with the Cayenne Turbo for a while.
I was still down on Ferrari but about this time the 997 (now we call it the 997.1) came out. They were kind of hard to get unless you wanted to wait a while and when my guy at the dealership said that they were really great and he had a car ordered and refused when it came in, I tried it out, fell in love and bought it. I traded in the Cayenne Turbo. It was dark grey, had PCCB's, which I had been wanting to try, but unfortunately did not have full leather, which I had grown used to in my Turbos and Cayenne Turbos. So they set about to get me a fully optioned 997CS. A black one, too, since the dark grey was just not me. It was a big step up over the 996 but it had problems. The motor was replaced by Porsche after about 1000 miles. And I missed the utility of the Cayenne.
I ordered the Cayenne, this time a Turbo S and traded the 997.1 in. This was nice but I still needed a sports car. I got a Lotus Elise. I took a friend with me when I looked at them and he joked that if I ever wanted that car I better buy it now because it would be impossible to get in or out if I got any older. That's a joke, but I bought the car anyway. I don't know if you would call that car an exotic (depends on your definition, I suppose), but it was definitely different. It weighed less than 2000 pounds and was dwarfed by everything on the road. Trucks and Suburbans pull right out in front of you or change lanes ignoring you're there and if you were behind anything else, even a Mazda Miata, you couldn't see around or over it. It handled like a dream, though, and you could slide all over the street without even leaving your lane. A neat little car, but like a toy. You could take it out to have fun and before you know it you had had enough fun. I liked the concept but it was too extreme.
So back I go to the Ferrari dealer. I bought a 360 Spider. It was mid-engined like the Lotus, but not as extreme. It was easy to get in and out of it and it was big enough to not feel vulnerable on the road. It handled well and looked good and it sounded okay. It was a good complement to the Cayenne Turbo S. But it was silver and the convertible part of it didn't really turn me on. So I traded it for a red Challenge Stradale. That is probably one of my most favorite cars that I have ever had. It was lightweight, extremely responsive, handled like a dream (but be careful, the power was instantaneous) and sounded better than any car I had ever heard before. Take it out and when it comes time to bring it back, find an excuse to stay out a little longer and take the long way home. And right before you get home take a detour for just a little more time in it. The Challenge Stradale and the Cayenne Turbo S just about were the perfect combination.
The Porsche dealer called and said the 997TT was coming out and it was fast. I better order it if I wanted to have one. I did, with all the goodies, including PCCB's. I traded both the Ferrari and the Cayenne. The 997TT was fast, good-looking, and more practical than the Ferrari, but it wasn't as sexy as the Ferrari, so I went down to buy back the Ferrari. It was sold.
Next stop, the Ferrari dealer. I traded the Porsche in on an F430. I had decided to use it as a daily driver like I did the Porsche, to hell with resale. Until it rained. So I went and bought another Cayenne Turbo for bad weather. Of course it was more than that. It became the daily driver.
When the 997.2 was announced, there were several improvements that interested me. One was direct injection and another was PDK. I ordered an S model and when it came in I traded the Cayenne Turbo for it. I didn't want to get rid of the F430 but it wasn't suitable for a daily driver and I'll tell you why. You really can't go anywhere and leave it. It draws a crowd, gets phone pictures taken while you are driving, and you worry about jealous people intentionally harming it. It has a beautiful exhaust note that turns heads everywhere you go, so it's not stealthy. I loved to drive it around but I didn't want to stop and go in anywhere to leave it unattended. Some people can, I can't. The Porsche was better for that. So now, I'm driving a 997.2 CS and a Ferrari F430. That's two sports cars with similar functions. Which one did I like the best. I don't know, they're totally different. The Ferrari sounded better and felt more sensual, but the Porsche seemed tighter, more casual I guess, and definitely more usable, more of a daily driver. The steering on the Ferrari was light but definite, the steering on the Porsche livelier and heavier. Overall, the Porsche felt like a newer, tighter car, even with more miles on it. So, knowing the 458 Ferrari was just around the corner, I sold the 430 and kept the Porsche.
You know what's coming next don't you. I was perfectly satisfied with the 997.2 CS, but I got a call from the Porsche dealer. He wanted me to test drive a Panamera Turbo that a customer had ordered but didn't close the deal on. I hadn't made up my mind on the looks of the Panamera yet but I was interested in the test drive. Are you kidding me? The torque was airplane like. Up close, the car was beautifully detailed (at least to me). The taillights were like jewelry and the interior was unlike anything else out there. And the drive: Wow! I had to have one, but not that one, not enough options. I got them all. Now if you think a Panamera is not exotic enough let me point out that of all the cars you can buy, the Panamera Turbo pulls more g-forces on acceleration than any car except the Bugatti Veyron. So, if you like acceleration, it is the ultimate (in feeling, anyway). You can load four people in that car, launch it and they will all say (regardless of what they drive) it is the strongest acceleration they have ever felt. It beat the 997.1TT in drag races. This is what prompted the 997.2TT and TTS to step up their act. And even though they will beat it to 60 and in the quarter mile, they won't pull it off the line. The feeling in the Panamera is stronger at the beginning than any Porsche or Ferrari on the market (well, maybe not the F12berlinetta, I haven't driven one of those).
The Ferrari dealer called and told me to come try out a 458 and order one. I spent some time with it and it is head and shoulders above a 430. Of course, 430 owners are arguing on FerrariChat just like 997 owners are on here about the changes not being for the better. That always happens. The 458 rides smoother, feels tighter, and has go-cart like steering. It has all the luxury options and convenience features Ferraris have been holding back on for a long time. It's more modern than anything before it and the dual clutch transmission is the only available choice. I could go for that. Mine came in and it was beautiful. Black with black interior, racing seats with yellow stitching, carbon fiber everywhere and yellow brakes. Breathtaking. The problem. It was so expensive I would need to unload the Panamera. Which meant I would not have a back seat, a luggage area that was big enough to go shopping for big things and it really doesn't have the massive torque of the Panamera. They didn't mind if I passed on it because there were several alternates waiting for that to happen, so I did. I kept the Panamera another year.
Now comes what you've been waiting for. The 991S with ALL the performance options, Burmester, PCCB's and 18-way seats with natural full leather and sport exhaust. The Panamera was a great car, maybe more desirable than a 458, and definitely more practical, but it's big, tight in parking spaces and narrow streets and a huge vehicle to wash and wax. I had gotten used to automatic locking and unlocking, automatic headlights and fantastic stereos in the Panamera and I wouldn't have to give them up in the 991. I traded.
The 991 is refined compared to the 997. To me, at least, the steering feels more solid and I don't mind the lighter effort. I was used to that in all the Ferraris and I don't place any preference on one or the other. You get used to the car you have. I never used the sport setting in the other 911's I had because it just seemed like a gimmick and because it was tied to harder shock settings which you had to turn off around here if you valued your kidneys. In the 991, the sport setting is erotic. It turns on the sport exhaust which is as tunable and playable a musical instrument as the Tubi was in the 355 and 550. It has a hypnotic, almost sensual, maybe feline purr to it that, even though it is not as loud as the Challenge Stradale or the F430, is every bit as captivating. This car is a blast to drive. It almost makes you feel guilty. I know, since I started using the sport setting, that I'm not getting good gas mileage because I drive more and love the sounds that a spirited take-off makes. I usually turn the radio down to listen to the exhaust purr up and down with the RPM's, but when I do want to listen to the stereo, it is second to none. It is better in the 991 than it was in the Panamera and that's saying a lot.
The car corners flat and I don't care if it's because of the Dynamic Chassis Control or some magician somewhere helping. The ride is better than the 997, just like the ride in the 458 was better than the 430. Part of the better ride has to do with the PCCB's, I'm convinced, because I have had both Porsches and Ferraris with and without them and the clean, shiny wheels without brake dust are just icing on the cake. The ventilated seats are already being used even though it's not yet summer.
I'll think of more things to say later, maybe, but just know that I'm not second guessing myself with this car like I have with several choices in the past. For now, at least, it's THE car to have.
I was still down on Ferrari but about this time the 997 (now we call it the 997.1) came out. They were kind of hard to get unless you wanted to wait a while and when my guy at the dealership said that they were really great and he had a car ordered and refused when it came in, I tried it out, fell in love and bought it. I traded in the Cayenne Turbo. It was dark grey, had PCCB's, which I had been wanting to try, but unfortunately did not have full leather, which I had grown used to in my Turbos and Cayenne Turbos. So they set about to get me a fully optioned 997CS. A black one, too, since the dark grey was just not me. It was a big step up over the 996 but it had problems. The motor was replaced by Porsche after about 1000 miles. And I missed the utility of the Cayenne.
I ordered the Cayenne, this time a Turbo S and traded the 997.1 in. This was nice but I still needed a sports car. I got a Lotus Elise. I took a friend with me when I looked at them and he joked that if I ever wanted that car I better buy it now because it would be impossible to get in or out if I got any older. That's a joke, but I bought the car anyway. I don't know if you would call that car an exotic (depends on your definition, I suppose), but it was definitely different. It weighed less than 2000 pounds and was dwarfed by everything on the road. Trucks and Suburbans pull right out in front of you or change lanes ignoring you're there and if you were behind anything else, even a Mazda Miata, you couldn't see around or over it. It handled like a dream, though, and you could slide all over the street without even leaving your lane. A neat little car, but like a toy. You could take it out to have fun and before you know it you had had enough fun. I liked the concept but it was too extreme.
So back I go to the Ferrari dealer. I bought a 360 Spider. It was mid-engined like the Lotus, but not as extreme. It was easy to get in and out of it and it was big enough to not feel vulnerable on the road. It handled well and looked good and it sounded okay. It was a good complement to the Cayenne Turbo S. But it was silver and the convertible part of it didn't really turn me on. So I traded it for a red Challenge Stradale. That is probably one of my most favorite cars that I have ever had. It was lightweight, extremely responsive, handled like a dream (but be careful, the power was instantaneous) and sounded better than any car I had ever heard before. Take it out and when it comes time to bring it back, find an excuse to stay out a little longer and take the long way home. And right before you get home take a detour for just a little more time in it. The Challenge Stradale and the Cayenne Turbo S just about were the perfect combination.
The Porsche dealer called and said the 997TT was coming out and it was fast. I better order it if I wanted to have one. I did, with all the goodies, including PCCB's. I traded both the Ferrari and the Cayenne. The 997TT was fast, good-looking, and more practical than the Ferrari, but it wasn't as sexy as the Ferrari, so I went down to buy back the Ferrari. It was sold.
Next stop, the Ferrari dealer. I traded the Porsche in on an F430. I had decided to use it as a daily driver like I did the Porsche, to hell with resale. Until it rained. So I went and bought another Cayenne Turbo for bad weather. Of course it was more than that. It became the daily driver.
When the 997.2 was announced, there were several improvements that interested me. One was direct injection and another was PDK. I ordered an S model and when it came in I traded the Cayenne Turbo for it. I didn't want to get rid of the F430 but it wasn't suitable for a daily driver and I'll tell you why. You really can't go anywhere and leave it. It draws a crowd, gets phone pictures taken while you are driving, and you worry about jealous people intentionally harming it. It has a beautiful exhaust note that turns heads everywhere you go, so it's not stealthy. I loved to drive it around but I didn't want to stop and go in anywhere to leave it unattended. Some people can, I can't. The Porsche was better for that. So now, I'm driving a 997.2 CS and a Ferrari F430. That's two sports cars with similar functions. Which one did I like the best. I don't know, they're totally different. The Ferrari sounded better and felt more sensual, but the Porsche seemed tighter, more casual I guess, and definitely more usable, more of a daily driver. The steering on the Ferrari was light but definite, the steering on the Porsche livelier and heavier. Overall, the Porsche felt like a newer, tighter car, even with more miles on it. So, knowing the 458 Ferrari was just around the corner, I sold the 430 and kept the Porsche.
You know what's coming next don't you. I was perfectly satisfied with the 997.2 CS, but I got a call from the Porsche dealer. He wanted me to test drive a Panamera Turbo that a customer had ordered but didn't close the deal on. I hadn't made up my mind on the looks of the Panamera yet but I was interested in the test drive. Are you kidding me? The torque was airplane like. Up close, the car was beautifully detailed (at least to me). The taillights were like jewelry and the interior was unlike anything else out there. And the drive: Wow! I had to have one, but not that one, not enough options. I got them all. Now if you think a Panamera is not exotic enough let me point out that of all the cars you can buy, the Panamera Turbo pulls more g-forces on acceleration than any car except the Bugatti Veyron. So, if you like acceleration, it is the ultimate (in feeling, anyway). You can load four people in that car, launch it and they will all say (regardless of what they drive) it is the strongest acceleration they have ever felt. It beat the 997.1TT in drag races. This is what prompted the 997.2TT and TTS to step up their act. And even though they will beat it to 60 and in the quarter mile, they won't pull it off the line. The feeling in the Panamera is stronger at the beginning than any Porsche or Ferrari on the market (well, maybe not the F12berlinetta, I haven't driven one of those).
The Ferrari dealer called and told me to come try out a 458 and order one. I spent some time with it and it is head and shoulders above a 430. Of course, 430 owners are arguing on FerrariChat just like 997 owners are on here about the changes not being for the better. That always happens. The 458 rides smoother, feels tighter, and has go-cart like steering. It has all the luxury options and convenience features Ferraris have been holding back on for a long time. It's more modern than anything before it and the dual clutch transmission is the only available choice. I could go for that. Mine came in and it was beautiful. Black with black interior, racing seats with yellow stitching, carbon fiber everywhere and yellow brakes. Breathtaking. The problem. It was so expensive I would need to unload the Panamera. Which meant I would not have a back seat, a luggage area that was big enough to go shopping for big things and it really doesn't have the massive torque of the Panamera. They didn't mind if I passed on it because there were several alternates waiting for that to happen, so I did. I kept the Panamera another year.
Now comes what you've been waiting for. The 991S with ALL the performance options, Burmester, PCCB's and 18-way seats with natural full leather and sport exhaust. The Panamera was a great car, maybe more desirable than a 458, and definitely more practical, but it's big, tight in parking spaces and narrow streets and a huge vehicle to wash and wax. I had gotten used to automatic locking and unlocking, automatic headlights and fantastic stereos in the Panamera and I wouldn't have to give them up in the 991. I traded.
The 991 is refined compared to the 997. To me, at least, the steering feels more solid and I don't mind the lighter effort. I was used to that in all the Ferraris and I don't place any preference on one or the other. You get used to the car you have. I never used the sport setting in the other 911's I had because it just seemed like a gimmick and because it was tied to harder shock settings which you had to turn off around here if you valued your kidneys. In the 991, the sport setting is erotic. It turns on the sport exhaust which is as tunable and playable a musical instrument as the Tubi was in the 355 and 550. It has a hypnotic, almost sensual, maybe feline purr to it that, even though it is not as loud as the Challenge Stradale or the F430, is every bit as captivating. This car is a blast to drive. It almost makes you feel guilty. I know, since I started using the sport setting, that I'm not getting good gas mileage because I drive more and love the sounds that a spirited take-off makes. I usually turn the radio down to listen to the exhaust purr up and down with the RPM's, but when I do want to listen to the stereo, it is second to none. It is better in the 991 than it was in the Panamera and that's saying a lot.
The car corners flat and I don't care if it's because of the Dynamic Chassis Control or some magician somewhere helping. The ride is better than the 997, just like the ride in the 458 was better than the 430. Part of the better ride has to do with the PCCB's, I'm convinced, because I have had both Porsches and Ferraris with and without them and the clean, shiny wheels without brake dust are just icing on the cake. The ventilated seats are already being used even though it's not yet summer.
I'll think of more things to say later, maybe, but just know that I'm not second guessing myself with this car like I have with several choices in the past. For now, at least, it's THE car to have.
#7
05-07-2012, 02:33 PM
I currently have both a 991S and 430 Spider....and drove both this past weekend....I bought each of them for different reasons and purposes but comparing them from a driving standpoint...and I'm talking about grabbing the keys with the purpose of a spirited drive....I would have to give the edge to the 430....it has a sharper more go kart like feel, CCB's are awesome, exhaust note is excellent and the overall raw "driving" experience is better IMO...I really like this car!.......having said that, I'm a huge fan of this 991 (previously had a C4S Cab)....and it will certainly hold its own against the 430...here are some I like better about the 991...
For the money....talking "brand new" car here.....I don't think there's another car on the market that can compare with the new 991.
- car can be as tame or as perforformance oriented as you want it by the touch of a button
- much more practical for a weekend trip, etc
- interior is excellent…very comfortable and luxurious (even with sport seats)
- stereo (burmester) is amazing….best stock stereo I've ever had….stereo in 430 is junk
- price
For the money....talking "brand new" car here.....I don't think there's another car on the market that can compare with the new 991.
Last edited by BrandonH; 05-07-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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#8
05-07-2012, 06:43 PM
I currently have both a 991S and 430 Spider....and drove both this past weekend....I bought each of them for different reasons and purposes but comparing them from a driving standpoint...and I'm talking about grabbing the keys with the purpose of a spirited drive....I would have to give the edge to the 430....it has a sharper more go kart like feel, CCB's are awesome, exhaust note is excellent and the overall raw "driving" experience is better IMO...I really like this car!.......having said that, I'm a huge fan of this 991 (previously had a C4S Cab)....and it will certainly hold its own against the 430...here are some I like better about the 991...
For the money....talking "brand new" car here.....I don't think there's another car on the market that can compare with the new 991.
- car can be as tame or as perforformance oriented as you want it by the touch of a button
- much more practical for a weekend trip, etc
- interior is excellent…very comfortable and luxurious (even with sport seats)
- stereo (burmester) is amazing….best stock stereo I've ever had….stereo in 430 is junk
- price
For the money....talking "brand new" car here.....I don't think there's another car on the market that can compare with the new 991.
ChuckJ
#11
05-07-2012, 07:08 PM
Now comes what you've been waiting for. The 991S with ALL the performance options, Burmester, PCCB's and 18-way seats with natural full leather and sport exhaust. The Panamera was a great car, maybe more desirable than a 458, and definitely more practical, but it's big, tight in parking spaces and narrow streets and a huge vehicle to wash and wax. I had gotten used to automatic locking and unlocking, automatic headlights and fantastic stereos in the Panamera and I wouldn't have to give them up in the 991. I traded.
The 991 is refined compared to the 997. To me, at least, the steering feels more solid and I don't mind the lighter effort. I was used to that in all the Ferraris and I don't place any preference on one or the other. You get used to the car you have. I never used the sport setting in the other 911's I had because it just seemed like a gimmick and because it was tied to harder shock settings which you had to turn off around here if you valued your kidneys. In the 991, the sport setting is erotic. It turns on the sport exhaust which is as tunable and playable a musical instrument as the Tubi was in the 355 and 550. It has a hypnotic, almost sensual, maybe feline purr to it that, even though it is not as loud as the Challenge Stradale or the F430, is every bit as captivating. This car is a blast to drive. It almost makes you feel guilty. I know, since I started using the sport setting, that I'm not getting good gas mileage because I drive more and love the sounds that a spirited take-off makes. I usually turn the radio down to listen to the exhaust purr up and down with the RPM's, but when I do want to listen to the stereo, it is second to none. It is better in the 991 than it was in the Panamera and that's saying a lot.
The car corners flat and I don't care if it's because of the Dynamic Chassis Control or some magician somewhere helping. The ride is better than the 997, just like the ride in the 458 was better than the 430. Part of the better ride has to do with the PCCB's, I'm convinced, because I have had both Porsches and Ferraris with and without them and the clean, shiny wheels without brake dust are just icing on the cake. The ventilated seats are already being used even though it's not yet summer.
I'll think of more things to say later, maybe, but just know that I'm not second guessing myself with this car like I have with several choices in the past. For now, at least, it's THE car to have.
Thanks
#12
05-07-2012, 07:16 PM
Great thread!
I have never owned another exotic car so I have nothing to contribute here.
But I am most fascinated by the reviews from the fortunate posters here who have had the experience in owning all these marvelous cars....
I have never owned another exotic car so I have nothing to contribute here.
But I am most fascinated by the reviews from the fortunate posters here who have had the experience in owning all these marvelous cars....
#14
05-07-2012, 07:27 PM
jmmk - I never used the sport setting in the other 911's I had because it just seemed like a gimmick and because it was tied to harder shock settings which you had to turn off around here if you valued your kidneys.
so true this new PASM system is all of a sudden so useable in a lot of different conditions.
so true this new PASM system is all of a sudden so useable in a lot of different conditions.
#15
05-08-2012, 01:33 PM
I ran into a guy yesterday who said he has owned several exotics and thought the MB SL was a better driving car than any of them. That surprised me. Here's what surprised me more...he said he test drove the 991 and thought it drove like crap.
Not sure I trust his judgement though.
Not sure I trust his judgement though.