Drove 997.1 GT3 back to back with my 991 3.4
#18
06-24-2012, 06:43 PM
I think you are practically comparing apples to oranges. GT3 is a stripped down race-ready 911 with an engine that redlines at over 8000 rpm. And the suspension setup and the exhaust... OMG! I bet it has track tires on too. It's not a fair comparison at all. GTS versus 991 is a better test. I have a 997.1 and a 991S on order. I am keeping both.
Take 991 to a DE and max it out. You might have a different opinion about it. I watched 991 go around Barber a weekend ago, my god that thing was fast. And the exhaust over- run when down shifting into the corner from the front straight was intoxicating. It was as fast as the GT3s in the advanced group. So don't give up just yet. Track it, it will come alive and you will have a whole new appreciation for the car.
Take 991 to a DE and max it out. You might have a different opinion about it. I watched 991 go around Barber a weekend ago, my god that thing was fast. And the exhaust over- run when down shifting into the corner from the front straight was intoxicating. It was as fast as the GT3s in the advanced group. So don't give up just yet. Track it, it will come alive and you will have a whole new appreciation for the car.
ChuckJ
#19
06-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Like others have said, a base 991 can not be compared to a 997 GT3 hell ya can barely even compare a 991 base to a 997C2S...
The only way to do this is take a 997 C2S and a 991 C2S
If the GT3 has this strong a calling for the OP it's a shame he opted to get the base instead of the S.
That said, the 991 GT3 will be available in less than 2 years.
Last edited by Psycho Sid; 06-24-2012 at 07:24 PM.
#20
06-24-2012, 09:47 PM
Comparing a 991 base or an S to GT series is like comparing a sweater to a tailored suit or a sport jacket to a racing suit? Its fruitless.
Although they are all badged as the vaunted 911's, I agree whole heartedly with the OP as to how different these 911's can be.
I have now driven all of the currently available 991 variants on the market. PDK base, PDK S, PDK Cab, PDK Cab S, and all of their corrsponding MT brethens with/out PSE, SC, SPASM, and PDCC. That's a lot of test drives. The closest one to a GT series would be the S with all of the electronic toys ON sans AutoStop and a PDK S at that.
My last drive in a 991S with MT was very disappointing. I was not happy with the soft clutch take-up and the length of the engagement. At one point, I told the GM that rode with me, this thing drives like a Honda Accord but clutches like an old Alfa! Its just that soft and springy! Personally, I was not comfortable with the clutch engagement beginning at around 70% depressed with the brake around 50% and a dead gas pedal. With the different GTs I have or driven, they all pedal similarly, around 40% clutch, 40% brake, and heel the gas. Easy and sychronized dance without much effort.
The 991 MT only came together when I was actually trying to drive it like a DD. Slow and mellow in traffic! Go ahead, flame away. I am not sure why, maybe the sun was too bright that Saturday morning for 2 hours and got me all twisted, but I was not enamored with the 991 S MT one bit...
I am of the firm belief that Porsche makes excellent sports cars but niche markets them even better. They understand that the definition of a 911 is very different for different segments of their clientelle. Some want a Grand Tourer type of a drive, some want the exlusivity, some want the luxo sporty cruiser, and some want the raw visceral experience. Just look at how many variants we have of a single brand called 911 and you will begin to understand what I mean.
Each 911 variant is perfect for the niche market its tailored to and not likey to suit everyone that shops the brand 911.
Although they are all badged as the vaunted 911's, I agree whole heartedly with the OP as to how different these 911's can be.
I have now driven all of the currently available 991 variants on the market. PDK base, PDK S, PDK Cab, PDK Cab S, and all of their corrsponding MT brethens with/out PSE, SC, SPASM, and PDCC. That's a lot of test drives. The closest one to a GT series would be the S with all of the electronic toys ON sans AutoStop and a PDK S at that.
My last drive in a 991S with MT was very disappointing. I was not happy with the soft clutch take-up and the length of the engagement. At one point, I told the GM that rode with me, this thing drives like a Honda Accord but clutches like an old Alfa! Its just that soft and springy! Personally, I was not comfortable with the clutch engagement beginning at around 70% depressed with the brake around 50% and a dead gas pedal. With the different GTs I have or driven, they all pedal similarly, around 40% clutch, 40% brake, and heel the gas. Easy and sychronized dance without much effort.
The 991 MT only came together when I was actually trying to drive it like a DD. Slow and mellow in traffic! Go ahead, flame away. I am not sure why, maybe the sun was too bright that Saturday morning for 2 hours and got me all twisted, but I was not enamored with the 991 S MT one bit...
I am of the firm belief that Porsche makes excellent sports cars but niche markets them even better. They understand that the definition of a 911 is very different for different segments of their clientelle. Some want a Grand Tourer type of a drive, some want the exlusivity, some want the luxo sporty cruiser, and some want the raw visceral experience. Just look at how many variants we have of a single brand called 911 and you will begin to understand what I mean.
Each 911 variant is perfect for the niche market its tailored to and not likey to suit everyone that shops the brand 911.
#22
06-25-2012, 12:13 PM
It most certainly is.
Twenty something years ago I was happy with Chevy's. Then my wife convinced me to try a pre-owned luxury car. Now I can't go back.
When I was a kid in the 1960's we loved gathering around the black and white TV as a family. Now there is color and everyone has a set in their room. Seems we can never go back.
Nope, I'm not gonna test drive a 997 anything.
Twenty something years ago I was happy with Chevy's. Then my wife convinced me to try a pre-owned luxury car. Now I can't go back.
When I was a kid in the 1960's we loved gathering around the black and white TV as a family. Now there is color and everyone has a set in their room. Seems we can never go back.
Nope, I'm not gonna test drive a 997 anything.
#23
06-25-2012, 12:51 PM
I should point out that although I did not expect my base car to be as fast as the GT3 , as a previous owner of a base 997.2 my observations with regard to the steering would have been the same regardless of which variant of 997 I happened to drive. I am not a 991 hater. I am a 991 owner. It's a great car and I may very well keep it for some time. I am simply saying it is just not as much fun to drive as my old 997.
#25
06-25-2012, 02:36 PM
It most certainly is.
Twenty something years ago I was happy with Chevy's. Then my wife convinced me to try a pre-owned luxury car. Now I can't go back.
When I was a kid in the 1960's we loved gathering around the black and white TV as a family. Now there is color and everyone has a set in their room. Seems we can never go back.
Nope, I'm not gonna test drive a 997 anything.
Twenty something years ago I was happy with Chevy's. Then my wife convinced me to try a pre-owned luxury car. Now I can't go back.
When I was a kid in the 1960's we loved gathering around the black and white TV as a family. Now there is color and everyone has a set in their room. Seems we can never go back.
Nope, I'm not gonna test drive a 997 anything.
#26
06-27-2012, 06:34 PM
Maybe....those were good times my friend. Not like today where my kids are constantly texting or talking to someone about really nothing important.
#27
06-27-2012, 07:45 PM
It's funny reading tromero's and SM_ATL's posts back to back. One wants to trade his car on a 997, and the other is having a great time with his. It's almost like they have two totally different cars. To each his own, I guess.
#28
06-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Actually the difference is that one has tracked the car and realized its full potential and is therefore enjoying it while the other hasn't explored it's lmits( he hasn't said it if he did) and not realized its potential and therefore unhappy with it.
#30
06-28-2012, 06:05 AM
I don't find the 997 GTS to be much different from the 997 S. More a slightly cranked up S than a GT3 made more livable.
Also, when comparing cars, we need to specify the application. On the road, we're almost always far from the limits of the car (unless you're a maniac), so the choice is based more on how the car feels than its performance capability. On the track, feel matters also, but the emphasis is on how readily the car can be driven near or at the limit, and how high that limit is.
For example, I definitely enjoy my 911 more than the CR on the road, but I'm still deciding which I prefer on the track.
Also, when comparing cars, we need to specify the application. On the road, we're almost always far from the limits of the car (unless you're a maniac), so the choice is based more on how the car feels than its performance capability. On the track, feel matters also, but the emphasis is on how readily the car can be driven near or at the limit, and how high that limit is.
For example, I definitely enjoy my 911 more than the CR on the road, but I'm still deciding which I prefer on the track.