If you drive in snow its understandable that you might prefer a 4/4S.

But, with the 996/997 cars it seemed to me that many 4/4S buyers selected awd not for the snow, but rather b/c they liked the ability to accelerate harder out of turns and maybe even more so, liked the more settled ride of the awd cars that had more weight in front.

So - 991 feels much much more mid engined than the 997. The front end doesn't feel feather light like it used to and with the added wheelbase and front track the turn in is in another league. ALSO - the new engines offer less torque relative to the 997s in the lower and mid ranges. Example: I have come out of a corner in the 991 on my way home in 1st gear!, and burried the throttle at the apex @4000 rpms - no wheel spin, the car holds the line and just goes. My 09' in the same turn tripped PSM time and again. (In fact I'm guessing that the 991 won't have as voracious an appetite for rear rubber as the 996/997s did).

So - no more bobbing front end and more grip than torque on corner exit (unless perhaps you're at 5500+ rpms mid turn). So it begs to reason that the 991 2wd cars should appeal to some of the traditional 4/4S buyers. Whether they explore the option is a different story...

DRP

 

Good point!

ChuckJ

 

I think an underlying issue here is the preconception we've all learned about AWD cars being more stable for the everyday drive, and now showing wonderful track presence (ability to apply more throttle earlier, like you stated).

Some think that AWD = more traction. While for the most part, this is true, but there are a lot more factors (which is exactly why I'm sure you're bringing this up).

It seems (I have not driven a 991) that the new chassis feels more like a mid-engined setup, and perhaps feels better balanced. I know that my favorite Porsche chassis is the Cayman. BUT - if the Cayman came in AWD Turbo trim, I'd be all over it.

Basically, I think that the only people that will consciously 'change' from a 4/4S to a 2/2S are the ones that have an open mind in the first place. It is hard to 'unlearn' things. To add to that, I think those that made a change to the 4/4S already did so with other factors in mind.

Something else - there is a delta between the level of traction of a RWD and AWD. Let's say there is a 'x' traction in the 997C2, and x+5 in the 997C4, then if the 991C2 has 'y' traction, then it may be possible (even if the gap has closed) that the delta is still there, but slightly decreased y+4 for the 991C4.

I think the big attraction is the Turbo, where the most traction possible helps out quite a lot, and people equate the Turbo to the 4S as sort of an N/A version of the Turbo. That isn't entirely true, but perceptions don't have to be.

 

Well said.

Excellent points - all of them.

DRP

 

While I have owned several awd vehicles, I prefer rwd for sports cars such as a Porsche. That's why my DD is a 2012 991cs.

 

Personally I love the C4S for it's big rear-end.
No to mention that section right in front of the rear wheels where the curve meets the body... it reminds me of the dimples just above the buttocks of an athletic yet slightly voluptuously sexy woman.

Ya do give up a bit of playfulness derived from the RWD but the feeling like it runs on rails is something which can be manipulated to have some big grin fun with instead.

Oh and the rear bumper sits a bit lower, wheels are a bit wider, plus in the spy shot even the curves have curves.

 

Guys this is very helpful discussion for the first time 911 buyer like me..I just don't want to regret not being able to wait for a little longer and going for S instead of 4S. I love the red stripe and the bigger real end!

Interestingly, I had a long discussion with one of the execs at work who is long time 911 (several generations) owner.. he also prefers rear wheel drive 911 as it is more predictable how you can control it vs. awd although currently drives a souped up 750hp 997.5 turbo which he modded from brand new... he says his new car would be 991 GT2!

 

DRP - overall I think your points are right on the money.

I previously drove a heavily modded 997 T4S and now a 991S, and have tracked both. To cut to the chase, the 991S is the better performer in EVERY category but wet traction. Its really just a much more competent car at high speeds. But here's the thing -- at this point, you really can't compare these cars on a 2WD vs 4WD basis. The 991S has way too many electronic aides for that to be fair -- PTV, Dynamic Mounts, PDCC, E-Diff, upgraded PASM and PDK, etc., not to mention the stiffer chassis The PTV I have to say is huge on the track. Basically, the car trail brakes just the one wheel that it needs to and in perfect application.

So where does that leave us while wait for the 9914S? I'd say for good weather driving, the 991S is so good that even a novice driver shouldn't feel he needs the "security" or traction of 4WD and wait for that. In the 997's, the 2WD and 4WD Carreras posted identical laps. My guess is that with the new electronic gizmos, the weight advantage, sharper turn in, and loads of (dry) traction of the 2WD 991 will make it a bit faster around a circuit. I will be curious to see if the 4WD 991 is as neutral as the 2WD. For me, the major understeer was the biggest dynamic fault of the T4S.

Now daily driver in fair and foul weather is a different story. If I were in those shoes, as good as the 991S is overall, I might hold out for the 4S.

 

Look at my avatar picture and you will see why I have a C4S. That is one sexy ***!

 

assuming dealers have 4S' in the lots in future (hopefully after Mar'13), would similar discounts be offered as there are now-a-days for S?

 

4/4s is not here till March?

 

Eventhough i'm in Switzerland I absolutely agree, my feeling was my old c4 slipped / pushed a lot more with the whole side of the car compared to the 991 which is completely different and much better than the 997 torque behaviour. On a racing course i had a much better feeling with the 991 c2, which i really didn't expect in this way, it was surprising me a lot....

 

A contrarian view to the love for widebodies -- granted I have not seen the 991 forthcoming WB in person, or fully undisguised -- but i prefer the narrow 997 over the wide.

I had a 997.1 wb and -- actually -- felt that it was too wide for good proportions. Plus the stock 305 tires looked a bit over the top to me - more barrels than wide tires. Somehow I feel the narrow bodies are truer to the ur-911 design.

I am very happy with the look of the 295s of my 991 and it is plenty wide for my taste.

On the AWD -- the 997 was my first 911 and I thought I wanted the security of the AWD over RWD for a less experienced driver. After experiencing the extremely well behaved modern AWD 911 and, at times, overly under-steer:y/pushy:ness, I didn't think twice about getting the 991 in RWD.


PS. Ask me again some time this winter in my first Mid-Altantic ice rain, lol.

 

That's what some other fellow member said...

 

One of the reasons I picked the c4 on my 997.1 was because my wife is an occasional driver - sometimes in the rain on the freeway. I thought a wrong down shift would be more controlled with 4 wheel engine breaking. But with all the electronics on a modern car this could have been misguided. The c4 is very forgiving when you drive it hard on the st. But when I drive a 997.2s I like the 'wiggle'. It may come down to style choice on the 991