% off MSRP Reality
#16
10-17-2012, 09:28 AM
Newbie here. Just picked up a new leftover 2012 Carrera from a local dealer for about 7.5% off MSRP. My research indicates that there is 11% markup from Invoice to MSRP on current Porsche 911's. When I purchased my Cayman S in 2006, there was a 14% markup on base price and 17% on options so there was more to play with and year end discounts of 12% were common at big dealers.
Of course, the more heavily optioned a car is, the bigger dollars-wise a percentage off is going to be. My observation from buying two new Porsches now and talking to dealers in a couple of states is that they will all start off saying they don't discount, but will quickly acquiesce if you push. Bottom line, this is VERY regional, and just because one person gets something at one dealer doesn't mean it will be honored all over.
Of course, the more heavily optioned a car is, the bigger dollars-wise a percentage off is going to be. My observation from buying two new Porsches now and talking to dealers in a couple of states is that they will all start off saying they don't discount, but will quickly acquiesce if you push. Bottom line, this is VERY regional, and just because one person gets something at one dealer doesn't mean it will be honored all over.
#17
10-17-2012, 10:22 AM
I've seen you get hammered for stating these "facts" previously.
Didn't want to get involved however since you keep repeating it, let me respectfull add my 2 cents.
Yours is a typical newbie perception... (and although you are correct) it primarily applies to manufactures whom have higher volumes.
I get at least 7% to 12% off my Benz's (brand new models) but Porsche does NOT have their type of volume so even though P. has THE highest profit margin per unit (in the entire industry) they do less than 10% of Benz's volume...
Now add to this that Porsche AG has announced that they will be reducing their production numbers for next year...
So when a dealer knows he'll have a 100 (991) allocations that year that's more or less the number he's going to base his service and parts revenue on and since he won't be increasing this number (unless he gets a few 991's from outside purchases) he'll try to get the most out of the sales side of it.
Should it be necessary to discount so they only make 1% on sales than they will wait 'till it becomes "left over stock".
As long as there are waiting lists, relatively low supply and more customers than cars... those HUGE discounts are far and few between.
Bottom line, Porsche... like Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, Lambo etc. are not know as cars that you can get a deal on... especially brand new!
This (plus higher price point) is what keeps them exclusive and desirable when sold used (for a fraction of the new $$).
We'll see what happens now that Volkswagen has officially taken over but I don't think "Porsche" will ever be a synonym for "discount".
Didn't want to get involved however since you keep repeating it, let me respectfull add my 2 cents.
Yours is a typical newbie perception... (and although you are correct) it primarily applies to manufactures whom have higher volumes.
I get at least 7% to 12% off my Benz's (brand new models) but Porsche does NOT have their type of volume so even though P. has THE highest profit margin per unit (in the entire industry) they do less than 10% of Benz's volume...
Now add to this that Porsche AG has announced that they will be reducing their production numbers for next year...
So when a dealer knows he'll have a 100 (991) allocations that year that's more or less the number he's going to base his service and parts revenue on and since he won't be increasing this number (unless he gets a few 991's from outside purchases) he'll try to get the most out of the sales side of it.
Should it be necessary to discount so they only make 1% on sales than they will wait 'till it becomes "left over stock".
As long as there are waiting lists, relatively low supply and more customers than cars... those HUGE discounts are far and few between.
Bottom line, Porsche... like Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, Lambo etc. are not know as cars that you can get a deal on... especially brand new!
This (plus higher price point) is what keeps them exclusive and desirable when sold used (for a fraction of the new $$).
We'll see what happens now that Volkswagen has officially taken over but I don't think "Porsche" will ever be a synonym for "discount".
Porsche dealers make most of their profits from service and parts. As much as you would like to think, they are just like oher dealers in the way they view the business model.
For those of you about to buy, don't buy into the line that Porsche does not discount like other brands.
Article can be found at Www.autonews.com
Last edited by newbie911; 10-17-2012 at 11:26 AM.
#18
10-17-2012, 10:47 AM
The simple fact is porsche dealers are no different than any other dealers even though they would like you to think they are. They sell great cars, but their business model is the same. Sell cars at low margin and make your real money off service and parts. The facts as stated by the Porsche CEO and industry trade rags provide factual support for this analysis.
By the way, how much does your porsche dealer charge for an oil change???? Bet it is a heck of a lot more than the Benz dealer or your local Honda dealer.
By the way, how much does your porsche dealer charge for an oil change???? Bet it is a heck of a lot more than the Benz dealer or your local Honda dealer.
Last edited by newbie911; 10-17-2012 at 11:29 AM.
#19
10-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Bottom line, Porsche... like Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, Lambo etc. are not know as cars that you can get a deal on... especially brand new!
This (plus higher price point) is what keeps them exclusive and desirable when sold used (for a fraction of the new $$).
We'll see what happens now that Volkswagen has officially taken over but I don't think "Porsche" will ever be a synonym for "discount".
This (plus higher price point) is what keeps them exclusive and desirable when sold used (for a fraction of the new $$).
We'll see what happens now that Volkswagen has officially taken over but I don't think "Porsche" will ever be a synonym for "discount".
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-...item1e73232a67
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2...item20cbf56906
#20
10-17-2012, 03:13 PM
Where are you getting the idea that porsche, aston, maserati dont discount from? You can get a maserati granturismo new for easily 25k off sticker and definitely more now that the 13s are out and a slight change in styling, an aston martin virage is an easy 50k+ off sticker...a DBS as well. Dealers will definitely discount, this idea that porsche aston maserati dont discount is a bit erroneous all you have to do is try (or look on ebay as a starting point). i was told porsche wouldnt discount my panamera when it first came out...and i got 27% off sticker. a new 911 wont be anywhere near that but i think high single digits is easily doable...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-ASTON-MARTIN-VIRAGE-V-12-LOADED-WHITE-TAN-PIANO-WOOD-20-DIAMOND-WHEELS-/130780703335?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e73232a67
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2012-MASERATI-GRANTURISMO-S-NERO-w-NERO-LEATHER-INTERIOR-/140860811526?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item20cbf56906
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-ASTON-MARTIN-VIRAGE-V-12-LOADED-WHITE-TAN-PIANO-WOOD-20-DIAMOND-WHEELS-/130780703335?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e73232a67
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2012-MASERATI-GRANTURISMO-S-NERO-w-NERO-LEATHER-INTERIOR-/140860811526?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item20cbf56906
Yes when new models come out the previous one drops like a rock (clearly) but see how much you're going to get of the NEW model when it first comes out (that is what we are talking about).
Now add to that my post was in reply to someone asking about discounts in Canada!!!
For every article or person which says X there's one which will say Y...
I have no problem with that, in the end we all have to decide what we want to believe and how much of it can apply to our individual situation.
As has been stated before geographical location is a big factor.
In the end it's common sense, dealers are in business to make $$.
If you can find one which is happy with a little than power to ya.
Wish I was as lucky.
But I've got to tell ya these confrontational posts just rub me the wrong way.
So unless I'm mis-reading your tone and disposition towards me (it happens) feel free to not reply to my posts cause I'll sure be ignoring yours.
#21
10-17-2012, 04:23 PM
Here's a new 2012 CS reduced 10K. The MSRP is on the sticker in one of the pictures. You also have to realize that most of the dealers are adding on over $400 in "dealer/doc fees, which is really more profit.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...21138897&Log=0
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...21138897&Log=0
Last edited by mtony; 10-18-2012 at 03:38 PM.
#22
10-18-2012, 06:14 AM
Yes when new models come out the previous one drops like a rock (clearly) but see how much you're going to get of the NEW model when it first comes out (that is what we are talking about).
Now add to that my post was in reply to someone asking about discounts in Canada!!!
For every article or person which says X there's one which will say Y...
I have no problem with that, in the end we all have to decide what we want to believe and how much of it can apply to our individual situation.
As has been stated before geographical location is a big factor.
In the end it's common sense, dealers are in business to make $$.
If you can find one which is happy with a little than power to ya.
Wish I was as lucky.
But I've got to tell ya these confrontational posts just rub me the wrong way.
So unless I'm mis-reading your tone and disposition towards me (it happens) feel free to not reply to my posts cause I'll sure be ignoring yours.
Now add to that my post was in reply to someone asking about discounts in Canada!!!
For every article or person which says X there's one which will say Y...
I have no problem with that, in the end we all have to decide what we want to believe and how much of it can apply to our individual situation.
As has been stated before geographical location is a big factor.
In the end it's common sense, dealers are in business to make $$.
If you can find one which is happy with a little than power to ya.
Wish I was as lucky.
But I've got to tell ya these confrontational posts just rub me the wrong way.
So unless I'm mis-reading your tone and disposition towards me (it happens) feel free to not reply to my posts cause I'll sure be ignoring yours.
I have worked at a company for 15 years that is closely aligned with dealers in supporting their operations so I have a good understanding of the dealer business model and their profitability.
As for getting "hammered" on the other thread, I don't think so. In fact, the other guys headed for the hills when presented with the facts.
Fact. I got a discount of just under 9% on my 2013
Fact. My dealer is not at risk of bankruptcy due to offering discounts. In fact , they are thriving
Fact. P dealers average a 3.2% margins on new car sales according to the CEO of Porsche. That means they heavily discount just like any other dealer
Fact. The majority of dealer profits come from service and parts.
Fact. Other posters on this and other forums are indicating that they also received large discounts on both 2012's and 2013 builds.
If you and other posters don't like confrontational posts, then don't throw the first punch.
These back and forths never would have started if I had been welcomed and congratulated when I made my initial post. (versus called a liar)
For those of you that are newbies, don't buy into the fact that you can't negotiate with Porsche dealers. You absolutely can.
Happy motoring!!
Last edited by newbie911; 10-18-2012 at 06:17 AM.
#23
10-18-2012, 06:34 AM
never meant to be confrontational sorry it came off that way - but it seemed the poster who said he got a decent discount got lambasted when he was likely just being helpful.
My point was that the idea of no discounts seems to be mentioned alot when the reality is that its not the case. clearly a new 991 wont have a huge discount but i think a high single digit is easy...on those astons and maseratis they have been on ebay/web for a long time its not just a 2012/2013 transition issue. besides if anyone sees a 2012 virage for 60-70k off sticker, they're not going ot be inclined to pay anywhere near MSRP for a 2013 anyway....
My point was that the idea of no discounts seems to be mentioned alot when the reality is that its not the case. clearly a new 991 wont have a huge discount but i think a high single digit is easy...on those astons and maseratis they have been on ebay/web for a long time its not just a 2012/2013 transition issue. besides if anyone sees a 2012 virage for 60-70k off sticker, they're not going ot be inclined to pay anywhere near MSRP for a 2013 anyway....
#24
10-18-2012, 06:49 AM
The "confrontational" posts got started when I began Posting about the discount I received on my 2013 build. My integrity was called into question by a "BS meter remark and a couple of other remarks by two specific posters. Then you start with the same kind of "you don't get it " attitude on this thread and what do you expect?
I have worked at a company for 15 years that is closely aligned with dealers in supporting their operations so I have a good understanding of the dealer business model and their profitability.
As for getting "hammered" on the other thread, I don't think so. In fact, the other guys headed for the hills when presented with the facts.
Fact. I got a discount of just under 9% on my 2013
Fact. My dealer is not at risk of bankruptcy due to offering discounts. In fact , they are thriving
Fact. P dealers average a 3.2% margins on new car sales according to the CEO of Porsche. That means they heavily discount just like any other dealer
Fact. The majority of dealer profits come from service and parts.
Fact. Other posters on this and other forums are indicating that they also received large discounts on both 2012's and 2013 builds.
If you and other posters don't like confrontational posts, then don't throw the first punch.
These back and forths never would have started if I had been welcomed and congratulated when I made my initial post. (versus called a liar)
For those of you that are newbies, don't buy into the fact that you can't negotiate with Porsche dealers. You absolutely can.
Happy motoring!!
I have worked at a company for 15 years that is closely aligned with dealers in supporting their operations so I have a good understanding of the dealer business model and their profitability.
As for getting "hammered" on the other thread, I don't think so. In fact, the other guys headed for the hills when presented with the facts.
Fact. I got a discount of just under 9% on my 2013
Fact. My dealer is not at risk of bankruptcy due to offering discounts. In fact , they are thriving
Fact. P dealers average a 3.2% margins on new car sales according to the CEO of Porsche. That means they heavily discount just like any other dealer
Fact. The majority of dealer profits come from service and parts.
Fact. Other posters on this and other forums are indicating that they also received large discounts on both 2012's and 2013 builds.
If you and other posters don't like confrontational posts, then don't throw the first punch.
These back and forths never would have started if I had been welcomed and congratulated when I made my initial post. (versus called a liar)
For those of you that are newbies, don't buy into the fact that you can't negotiate with Porsche dealers. You absolutely can.
Happy motoring!!
I did not respond to your post because I didn't want to get into a pissing contest... but here you are again.
I was very respectful and non confrontational with you (unlike some other's you mentioned).
I even stated you where correct but that I do not believe it applies to Porsche as they have more demand than supply and that it is very dependent on geographical location... I could go on but don't feel like repeating myself, again.
I'm here to share passion and info, have a laugh, vicariously experience the excitement as others take delivery of their new 991's... till I get my C4S.
If you're looking to come on here and get into a pissing contest while telling others how stupid they are because they could not get your 9% discount on a 2013 991... let me know how that works out for you.
Take a chill pill.
#25
10-18-2012, 07:05 AM
never meant to be confrontational sorry it came off that way - but it seemed the poster who said he got a decent discount got lambasted when he was likely just being helpful.
My point was that the idea of no discounts seems to be mentioned alot when the reality is that its not the case. clearly a new 991 wont have a huge discount but i think a high single digit is easy...on those astons and maseratis they have been on ebay/web for a long time its not just a 2012/2013 transition issue. besides if anyone sees a 2012 virage for 60-70k off sticker, they're not going ot be inclined to pay anywhere near MSRP for a 2013 anyway....
My point was that the idea of no discounts seems to be mentioned alot when the reality is that its not the case. clearly a new 991 wont have a huge discount but i think a high single digit is easy...on those astons and maseratis they have been on ebay/web for a long time its not just a 2012/2013 transition issue. besides if anyone sees a 2012 virage for 60-70k off sticker, they're not going ot be inclined to pay anywhere near MSRP for a 2013 anyway....
I got what you where saying my point is just that there seems to be very little willingness from Porsche dealer to give big discounts (as long as demand exceeds supply), I never said no discounts!
There are some whom have gotten excellent discounts but those are far and few between.
Bigger discounts seem to be reserved for lot cars, especially as we're getting closer to Dec.
My point re Mas, Lambo, Ferrari was more to do that those are not cars known for their "great deals" and getting 50K off on a $400K ride is not making the car a "steal".
That's not why you get a Porsche (for the discount).
Anyway for those that do get big discounts good for you for those like myself that haven't tough luck.
#26
10-18-2012, 07:25 AM
Yeah you're aiming at the wrong guy...
I did not respond to your post because I didn't want to get into a pissing contest... but here you are again.
I was very respectful and non confrontational with you (unlike some other's you mentioned).
I even stated you where correct but that I do not believe it applies to Porsche as they have more demand than supply and that it is very dependent on geographical location... I could go on but don't feel like repeating myself, again.
I'm here to share passion and info, have a laugh, vicariously experience the excitement as others take delivery of their new 991's... till I get my C4S.
If you're looking to come on here and get into a pissing contest while telling others how stupid they are because they could not get your 9% discount on a 2013 991... let me know how that works out for you.
Take a chill pill.
I did not respond to your post because I didn't want to get into a pissing contest... but here you are again.
I was very respectful and non confrontational with you (unlike some other's you mentioned).
I even stated you where correct but that I do not believe it applies to Porsche as they have more demand than supply and that it is very dependent on geographical location... I could go on but don't feel like repeating myself, again.
I'm here to share passion and info, have a laugh, vicariously experience the excitement as others take delivery of their new 991's... till I get my C4S.
If you're looking to come on here and get into a pissing contest while telling others how stupid they are because they could not get your 9% discount on a 2013 991... let me know how that works out for you.
Take a chill pill.
Have a great day!!
#27
10-18-2012, 08:28 AM
Like you, I came here to share my experience and was called a liar by some. Definitely got my dander up. You called me a "typical newbie" and proceeded to try to school me on the ways of the automotive world. That too got my dander up. Happy to move on and begin sharing my experience as a soon to be Porsche owner. But will "punch back" anytime my integrity or business sense is challenged.
Have a great day!!
Have a great day!!
If you have issues and can't read that's your problem, I was nothing short of cordial and was sharing some of my experience regarding the fact that people new to Porsche sometimes are taken aback when something that cost them $50,- will now be $150,- etc...
Many newbie's get welcomed with open arms every week (as effectively we all are "newbies" in the 991 section), the fact that you have been able to garner this many confrontations with various members in just 18 post should tell you something...
As to "punching back"....buddy I never took a swipe at you but keep it up and I will.... actually I'm done with you, like others you have scarred off
I too will "head for the hills". On the ignore list.
OP I'm really sorry about these posts, I should've just ignored them... again my apologies!
Hope you were able to get some info out of it anyway.
#28
10-18-2012, 10:46 AM
No way on 7-9%.
I'd say 3-4% is the MOST you will sniff. Maybe you can get 5 or 6% on outgoing '12's.
Every situation is different so if you are financing and your dealer gets some YSP (yield spread premium) or incentive for selling you a loan, and you get the "TruCoat" and "Tire Warranty" and all the other BS...and they rob you on your trade it may give the illusion of 7-9%.
..but a cash deal 2013 on the spot with no extras you will be at 3-4% off the Monroney.
I'd say 3-4% is the MOST you will sniff. Maybe you can get 5 or 6% on outgoing '12's.
Every situation is different so if you are financing and your dealer gets some YSP (yield spread premium) or incentive for selling you a loan, and you get the "TruCoat" and "Tire Warranty" and all the other BS...and they rob you on your trade it may give the illusion of 7-9%.
..but a cash deal 2013 on the spot with no extras you will be at 3-4% off the Monroney.
#29
10-18-2012, 12:04 PM
I said "Yours is a typical newbie perception... (and although you are correct) it primarily applies to manufactures whom have higher volumes".
If you have issues and can't read that's your problem, I was nothing short of cordial and was sharing some of my experience regarding the fact that people new to Porsche sometimes are taken aback when something that cost them $50,- will now be $150,- etc...
Many newbie's get welcomed with open arms every week (as effectively we all are "newbies" in the 991 section), the fact that you have been able to garner this many confrontations with various members in just 18 post should tell you something...
As to "punching back"....buddy I never took a swipe at you but keep it up and I will.... actually I'm done with you, like others you have scarred off I too will "head for the hills".
On the ignore list.
OP I'm really sorry about these posts, I should've just ignored them... again my apologies!
Hope you were able to get some info out of it anyway.
If you have issues and can't read that's your problem, I was nothing short of cordial and was sharing some of my experience regarding the fact that people new to Porsche sometimes are taken aback when something that cost them $50,- will now be $150,- etc...
Many newbie's get welcomed with open arms every week (as effectively we all are "newbies" in the 991 section), the fact that you have been able to garner this many confrontations with various members in just 18 post should tell you something...
As to "punching back"....buddy I never took a swipe at you but keep it up and I will.... actually I'm done with you, like others you have scarred off
I too will "head for the hills". On the ignore list.
OP I'm really sorry about these posts, I should've just ignored them... again my apologies!
Hope you were able to get some info out of it anyway.
The topic got beaten to death right here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...911-build.html
I do wonder how much of a discount newbie911 got for his very sensitive "dander"!
#30
10-18-2012, 02:23 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Oh boy... Too many of these threads degenerate into snide remarks that benefit no one.
1. I assume that most members on this board are well to do.
2. I also assume that some here (more than others) have less need, time or appetite to negotiate to the very last bottom dollar.
3. This is everyone's right and makes them no less savvy or capable at negotiating.
The reality is that you get what you're willing to pay on that day, depending on where you live, where and when you buy, and the dealership that you're working with.
If one got a really pathetic discount at purchase but then gets an amazing deal for their future trade-in, I would venture to say that it all washes out in the end.
For those here that got a 100% discount, congrats to you. And for those that paid the over sticker price, congrats to you too.
So lets agree that there is NO "reality" discount....
1. I assume that most members on this board are well to do.
2. I also assume that some here (more than others) have less need, time or appetite to negotiate to the very last bottom dollar.
3. This is everyone's right and makes them no less savvy or capable at negotiating.
The reality is that you get what you're willing to pay on that day, depending on where you live, where and when you buy, and the dealership that you're working with.
If one got a really pathetic discount at purchase but then gets an amazing deal for their future trade-in, I would venture to say that it all washes out in the end.
For those here that got a 100% discount, congrats to you. And for those that paid the over sticker price, congrats to you too.
So lets agree that there is NO "reality" discount....