I've subscribed to flyanddive's suggestion of the 4.0 RS engine in a Cayman model. Could be quite possibly the perfect car.

So let's look at the cost difference, alone, of the the current 3.4 and either the 3.8 or 4.0. Raise the cost of the vehicle approximately that amount (plus maybe the parts bin brakes, etc...), and see where we are.

I mean - the cost of the car should not exceed too much if they use existing parts, because there is no new R&D required, and no new machining to be done.

 

I think of the Cayman as an afterthought - it took over a decade before a hardtop version of the Boxster to come out. It was placed strategically in the line up below the 911 for a reason.

Porsche could easily create a car like the Ruf 3400K, but don't think they would leave it in the sub 100K price point. Even if the production costs were on par with the base 991 Carrera, I think they would place it at a different price point above of the 911 range. Why have 2 platforms with fairly similar performance in the same price range?

 

The 960 is going to be the high performance Cayman. It will likely sit at the quarter million price point and above every 911 in performance. The rumors on the internet say the next 911 in 2018 will be mid-engine, so we will see.

 

See, I feel that the Cayman with the 911 S engine (or 4.0 at the most) could round out costs near the base 911 price (The Cayman R is significantly lower for the outgoing 987/997). So with the increased engine, the price goes up around the base 991, and include the variants that exist anyway, to continue to offer the entry level sports car. BUT - don't make it as comfortable as the 911 (keep the 911 the GT car, allow the Cayman to be the sports car).

Not unlike the 370Z/G35 (370Z is a better performing car for less, but the G37 has similar engine package with more GT appointments) or Corvette/CTS-V Coupe similarities. Same engines, drastically different purpose cars.

Regarding afterthought - I, too, used to view it that way. Kind of like the bastard child without a home in the line up. I felt that way until I drove one. Now I view it differently - like somebody finally caved in Porsche, and decided that they should build a mid-engine car (Boxster), and now that we have all of this R&D, let's build on it, and see how good it can get, since the costs are low.

But then they saw how good it could get, presented their results to others, who then said,"That will outperform our higher priced car, and it is cheaper to build/sell. People may not buy the higher priced car, or they'll realize that this performance doesn't really have to cost this much." Let's keep everything where it is..."

Lid attached.

 

John:
+1
Same story:
- First Porsche 1963 356
- Joined PCA
- 15 Porsches in 45+ years (many 2 at a time)
- Couple other cars, but always came back to Porsche in general and 911 in particular
- Drove 2012 Cayman, bought a 991.
- Old "fart"- 68 years

ChuckJ

 

Interesting handling comparison between the previous Cayman R and the previous GT3. Not exactly the results some would guess. http://www.caranddriver.com/features...11-gt3-feature

 

Nice find tx11!

ChuckJ

 

Actually, having the GT3 on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup radials and the Cayman R on Bridgestone Potenza RE050A rubber produced exactly the result I would have guessed knowing only what tires were on these two two outstanding Porsches. I would guess that if that had been reversed, given the particular courses used, the Cayman would have run away- thats what R rated tires do. Sometimes I think car magazines set up conditions to match preconceived results.

 

Totally right. Nice find by tx11, but it is unfortunately an interesting topic ruined by a bad journalist. Comparing the two cars with tires that are that different is simply gross incompetence There is another thread going on regarding incompetent journalists (991 PDK vs Lotus Evora in R&T)

 

I take it that the same tires would not have reversed the results entirely. It is not that C&D tried to hide the fact, it speculated that the Cayman could top the 911, if equipped with the same tires, AND the same powerful engine.

Of course the question is legit, why then didn't they use the same tires to begin with? They set themselves up for attack. The only answer I can think of is, they only go with what is offered by the manufacture, without aftermarket intervention. That way, the test results are true to what Porsche designed them to be, not what we can make them to be.

In this case I come in defense of C&D because there is little subjective points made, unlike the R&T 991s vs Evora s comparo. Not that I totally dismiss the R&T comparo either. Change in steering feel and road connection is why I refused to switch my old 328i to the new 328i.

As far as new Cayman over 911 any day, not if you need the +2 seats.

 

Good post.

Does Porsche really feel that a simple tire choice could put the Cayman near 911 territory?

Interesting. I bet there is a project manager of the Cayman, somewhere, cursing at the 911 division (in German) because the 911 project manager has seniority and won't let the Cayman get the same tires.

This is what bothers me.

Aston puts the same 500+HP V12 in all of their cars (apparently somebody doesn't like that). Why can't Porsche use the same engine (or similar trim levels)? I believe because 911 sales will go down.

If that is true, there is a problem with the 911.

 

Bingo!

The same issues exist in entry level luxury models such as BMW 3 series, only more obvious, because they sell 3 series in volume.

Porsche does not sell 911s/Boxsters/Caymans in such volume, but still sells many more than Aston Martin and other more exclusive brands.

I'd like to agree that this is the problem with 911 or Cayman, they must keep each other in check to maintain sales volume. But it is not a problem we want resolve either, because if Porsche sales tank, the price will have to rise to supercar levels to sustain its business, and be out of reach for many of us.

 

A mid-engine like the 918, with a hybrid system? Or is the 918 a rear engine since the weight bias is rearward? Would there be no rear seats like the Cayman? I guess we'll see, but here's Porsche's sales release. Seems like the rear engine is doing just fine according to their press release. http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=706

ChuckJ

 

Strictly talking sales numbers in the US, both the 911 and Boxster are doing very well in the past year. Cayman sometimes was selling in the single digit a month. Dealers simply didn't have any to sell.

The new Cayman could change that. If so, it will cannibalize some 911 sales.

 

This is something I need to be reminded of, periodically. Thanks! It makes sense (unfortunately).
Because there is no alternative. Not a mid-engine like the 918, or with a hybrid system. A Cayman with a 3.8. Period.

(Other alternatives mentioned earlier would be nice as well - Turbo engine with AWD, or a 4.0 RS like power plant, etc...)