new Porsche Cayman any day over 911
#16
02-10-2013, 08:21 AM
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These are 2 different car for 2 different demographics and group of folks..
I use my rear seats for my 2 kids...they love it!
By the way, what's the meaning of posting this thread on 991 forum?? It's just ridiculous!
I use my rear seats for my 2 kids...they love it!
By the way, what's the meaning of posting this thread on 991 forum?? It's just ridiculous!
#17
02-10-2013, 08:23 AM
Which is a better car?.... whichever floats your boat!
Car journo's and their reviews are given as a placebo and should be taken with plenty of water!
Car journo's and their reviews are given as a placebo and should be taken with plenty of water!
Last edited by Haku; 02-10-2013 at 10:35 AM.
#18
02-10-2013, 09:03 AM
he and his buddies are trolling, Fester - they posted it over at the other forum, too. it's kind of cute, but also a little lame.
#19
02-10-2013, 09:06 AM
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
I'm a big believer in thinking of this in non-zero sum game sense. Everyone should have what they want (and can afford). I do think it is kind of neat that Porsche managed to technically refine what most would assume was not a technically correct car (not 50-50 weight distribution) to the point that it performs so admirably. And in doing so, they actually learned that 50/50 is not necessarily the best for overall performance (the 918 is 43/57), and that variable 4WD is good for more than snow.
I appreciate the 918 and CS4 but I can't afford it. But I'm very satisfied with my 991 C2 and I'll just admire the guys that can afford even more. For those that buy a Cayman S because they think it is the top choice, I say great, I'll celebrate your happiness.
ChuckJ
Last edited by ChuckJ; 02-10-2013 at 05:05 PM.
#20
02-10-2013, 10:13 AM
Nice, Sid!
I'm a big believer in thinking of this in non-zero sum game sense. Everyone should have what they want (and can afford). I do think it is kind of neat that Porsche managed to technically refine what most would assume was not a technically correct car (not 50-50 weight distribution) to the point that it performs so admirably. And in doing so, they actually learned that 50/50 is not necessarily the best for overall performance (the 918 is 43/57), and that variable 4WD is good for more than snow.
I appreciate the 918 and CS4 but I can't afford it. But I'm very satisfied with my 991 C2 and I'll just admire the guys that can afford even more. For those that buy a Cayman S because they think it is the top choice, I say great, I'll celibate your happiness.
ChuckJ
I'm a big believer in thinking of this in non-zero sum game sense. Everyone should have what they want (and can afford). I do think it is kind of neat that Porsche managed to technically refine what most would assume was not a technically correct car (not 50-50 weight distribution) to the point that it performs so admirably. And in doing so, they actually learned that 50/50 is not necessarily the best for overall performance (the 918 is 43/57), and that variable 4WD is good for more than snow.
I appreciate the 918 and CS4 but I can't afford it. But I'm very satisfied with my 991 C2 and I'll just admire the guys that can afford even more. For those that buy a Cayman S because they think it is the top choice, I say great, I'll celibate your happiness.
ChuckJ
#21
02-10-2013, 10:23 AM
I wasn't going to post anything... as i usually do not when it comes to these types of threads as it almost always will involve the inavitability of raisng one person's pride and joy over someone elses... but these types of threads seem to keep popping up so I'll finally put my 2 cents in.
Let me start by saying I have owned both a Boxter and Cayman... they are great track cars which are a ton of fun... like a big go-cart.
That said, here's the problem with these supposed "journalists" and their opinions, because make no mistake about it...that is all it is, one mans opinion!
Most (99.9%) of them (journo's) do not and never will make the kind of $$ of their "hosting gig" which will allow them to actually purchase a nicely appointed 991 while it's under the original warranty, never mind brand new.
That is unless they own the production company, the magazine etc or are in the league of the Top Gear boys (UK BBC production only).
As such most automotive journo's (as is in our nature) play to the crowd in their shoes... while having in the back of their mind that the Boxter or Cayman may just be in their future with a bit of luck... so the less costly, lesser performing "baby" 911 becomes a more desirable car (if not even a truer and supperior sports car!) than the icon, the flagship the one all others are compared to... the 911.
I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a kid with posters of that amazing iconic "Boxter" on his walls... nor do I know any non sports car owners whom (if given the choice at no cost) would pick a boxter or Cayman over the 911...
No, anyone whom says a Boxter is a preferable to a 991 is lying to themselves.
I have yet to meet a 911 owner which would trade his icon in for a Boxter, but have seen many, many Boxter and Cayman owner ultimately end up in a 911...
Now add to this equation that we are talking about a 991... arguably the most powerful if not superior performing 911 build to date.
For me the Boxter and Cayman fall in a similar category as the Lotus Elise and Exige...some of the most underrated fun track cars a person can have... but they are no icon and as long as the 911 is around... they never will be.
So in the end it comes down to how these very, very different cars (Boxter/Cayman and 991) are presented and by whom...
Which takes us to the type of opinions rising from individuals whom have given themselves the title of " automotive journalists"... effectively giving them the credit of "experts"... after driving something for a few hours and then getting back into their pick-up truck...
I'll say this, no person will appreciate something as much as when they had to pay for the privilege of ownership and the knowledge derived from it's consequent daily interaction.
That's why I love these types of forums, you get feedback from people whom not just actually own the cars they are talking about... they view their rides as an experience... not just "a mode of transportation".
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
My 2 cents...OK maybe that was more like 200 cents.
Let me start by saying I have owned both a Boxter and Cayman... they are great track cars which are a ton of fun... like a big go-cart.
That said, here's the problem with these supposed "journalists" and their opinions, because make no mistake about it...that is all it is, one mans opinion!
Most (99.9%) of them (journo's) do not and never will make the kind of $$ of their "hosting gig" which will allow them to actually purchase a nicely appointed 991 while it's under the original warranty, never mind brand new.
That is unless they own the production company, the magazine etc or are in the league of the Top Gear boys (UK BBC production only).
As such most automotive journo's (as is in our nature) play to the crowd in their shoes... while having in the back of their mind that the Boxter or Cayman may just be in their future with a bit of luck... so the less costly, lesser performing "baby" 911 becomes a more desirable car (if not even a truer and supperior sports car!) than the icon, the flagship the one all others are compared to... the 911.
I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a kid with posters of that amazing iconic "Boxter" on his walls... nor do I know any non sports car owners whom (if given the choice at no cost) would pick a boxter or Cayman over the 911...
No, anyone whom says a Boxter is a preferable to a 991 is lying to themselves.
I have yet to meet a 911 owner which would trade his icon in for a Boxter, but have seen many, many Boxter and Cayman owner ultimately end up in a 911...
Now add to this equation that we are talking about a 991... arguably the most powerful if not superior performing 911 build to date.
For me the Boxter and Cayman fall in a similar category as the Lotus Elise and Exige...some of the most underrated fun track cars a person can have... but they are no icon and as long as the 911 is around... they never will be.
So in the end it comes down to how these very, very different cars (Boxter/Cayman and 991) are presented and by whom...
Which takes us to the type of opinions rising from individuals whom have given themselves the title of " automotive journalists"... effectively giving them the credit of "experts"... after driving something for a few hours and then getting back into their pick-up truck...
I'll say this, no person will appreciate something as much as when they had to pay for the privilege of ownership and the knowledge derived from it's consequent daily interaction.
That's why I love these types of forums, you get feedback from people whom not just actually own the cars they are talking about... they view their rides as an experience... not just "a mode of transportation".
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
My 2 cents...OK maybe that was more like 200 cents.
I hope people do downgrade to the Cayman/Boxster. Less demand for the 911 will only help me negotiate better prices with my dealer!
#22
02-10-2013, 10:27 AM
Great post. Seems like a troll move to me, as well. I thought the same thing when I saw the same thread over on RL, too. I guess the OP is trying to stir things up on a number of forums. Too silly.
#23
02-10-2013, 10:34 AM
Its a "justify" my decision post but I will admit to configuring and watching a few reviews about the Cayman; however never found it necessary to write about it. Like has been said before I am addicted to the sound of the 3.8L and while this car is definitely something to consider I don't desire it like I would a 911. Porsche has done a great job of creating a very desirable ride and depending on what is your stable I can see how the Cayman would be a good fit!
#24
02-10-2013, 10:52 AM
John in Vancouver
Last edited by Snowczar; 02-10-2013 at 10:58 AM.
#26
02-10-2013, 12:01 PM
Porsche has this tactic many years now.. If you drive a 997 c2s and a boxter S manual both, the boxter has a sportier feeling - sound - suspension - harder clunch pedal than the 997s. Even the 997 turbo you have to heavily modify it and pay a lot of money to make it a sport car..
I understand that porsche wants to make more sells and most of porsche target group are family men.
Only the gt (gt3 gt2) cars continue the true porsche legend...
I understand that porsche wants to make more sells and most of porsche target group are family men.
Only the gt (gt3 gt2) cars continue the true porsche legend...
#27
02-10-2013, 12:30 PM
Fester, just curious, how old are your children? Do they fit pretty well in the back seat?
#28
02-10-2013, 12:51 PM
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Im about take ownership of Carrera 4S in a week or so .. However, It does not surprise me that the Cayman is hailed as better car than the 911.. the writing has been on the wall since the last Cayman R ..
I dont think there is a "logical" justification to buy 991 over Cayman .. In my opinion .. pound for pound it trumps the 991 .. even Porsche Driving instructors "silently" say so.. and not only the Cayman other cars like the M3 (or upcoming M4) also provide strong arguments vs 991...
The fact of the matter is that handling dynamics are affected mostly by weight and the Cayman will always have the better bargain on that front .. add to that the mid engine configuration and is the result such a surprised to a bunch of automotive connoisseurs especially when you consider the relatively small power differential ?!
Nonetheless, its not all about handling and there is more to buying a sports car than common sense..i mean if every 1 applied actual common sense then none of these cars will exist and we all be satisfied sensible/practical cars..
As such I agree with Sid that its an emotional issue .. but at the same time I dont think that's a sufficient reason to say (outright) that 911 is better than the Cayman. Also I don't blame journalists for saying so cos they are suppose to be objective (as much as possible) and not provide a review purely on emotions.. A prime example is Jeremy Clarckson who stated on many occasions (for the benefit of his audience) that particular car is terrible (facts provided) .. but loves it for one reason or another (emotional decision).. On the other hand he states that Porsches are great cars well engineered and made (fact) but hates them for some reason (emotional decision)
As for me I ordered the C4S knowing the Cayman will be coming out and could be better and cheaper.. but I made my choice and feel more than content
.. no need to explain why or defend 991.. all i can say to the Cayman camp thumbs up and enjoy ..but parked next to each other ill be feeling superior 
I dont think there is a "logical" justification to buy 991 over Cayman .. In my opinion .. pound for pound it trumps the 991 .. even Porsche Driving instructors "silently" say so.. and not only the Cayman other cars like the M3 (or upcoming M4) also provide strong arguments vs 991...
The fact of the matter is that handling dynamics are affected mostly by weight and the Cayman will always have the better bargain on that front .. add to that the mid engine configuration and is the result such a surprised to a bunch of automotive connoisseurs especially when you consider the relatively small power differential ?!
Nonetheless, its not all about handling and there is more to buying a sports car than common sense..i mean if every 1 applied actual common sense then none of these cars will exist and we all be satisfied sensible/practical cars..
As such I agree with Sid that its an emotional issue .. but at the same time I dont think that's a sufficient reason to say (outright) that 911 is better than the Cayman. Also I don't blame journalists for saying so cos they are suppose to be objective (as much as possible) and not provide a review purely on emotions.. A prime example is Jeremy Clarckson who stated on many occasions (for the benefit of his audience) that particular car is terrible (facts provided) .. but loves it for one reason or another (emotional decision).. On the other hand he states that Porsches are great cars well engineered and made (fact) but hates them for some reason (emotional decision)
As for me I ordered the C4S knowing the Cayman will be coming out and could be better and cheaper.. but I made my choice and feel more than content
.. no need to explain why or defend 991.. all i can say to the Cayman camp thumbs up and enjoy ..but parked next to each other ill be feeling superior
#29
02-10-2013, 04:50 PM
I (and the reviewer) was referring specifically to high speed stability, not overall handling.