new Porsche Cayman any day over 911
#76
02-17-2013, 04:40 PM
Not a big deal for me as long as Porsche makes great sports cars too!
This being said, the Cayenne is definitely the best SUV on the market and I enjoy driving it when I get a loaner. Our family car is a 2012 QX56, but I would rather go for a Porsche 7-seater if there was one and would not think anything less of my 911 in the meantime
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I agree about the 987 vs 991 comment too and most people not seeing the difference. I drive my 911 a lot, including through fairly remote places (where people still recognize 'Vettes though) and I get a lot of interest including questions like "is it an import"?
... and then they go around the car and say something like "It's a Porsche!", meaning the brand name is much stronger than the iconic shape of the 911 for 99% of the population.
This being said, the Cayenne is definitely the best SUV on the market and I enjoy driving it when I get a loaner. Our family car is a 2012 QX56, but I would rather go for a Porsche 7-seater if there was one and would not think anything less of my 911 in the meantime
.I agree about the 987 vs 991 comment too and most people not seeing the difference. I drive my 911 a lot, including through fairly remote places (where people still recognize 'Vettes though) and I get a lot of interest including questions like "is it an import"?
... and then they go around the car and say something like "It's a Porsche!", meaning the brand name is much stronger than the iconic shape of the 911 for 99% of the population.
#77
02-17-2013, 05:27 PM
The Cayman is the perfect 911. The 2 seats in the back of 911 is a joke. Maybe only less than 1% of the owners use these Lilliputian places. Put the 3.8 in the Cayman and there is no more reason to the 911 to exist. And for people who really want back seats, they can go with the Panamera or the Cayenne. I think that Porsche is in a funny situation ... little brother is getting stronger 
#78
02-17-2013, 08:15 PM
Of course if your goal is a mid-engined 2 seater, then they may be what you're looking for anyway, but they're certainly not interchangeable no matter what point an automotive writer is trying to make (or stir up).
#79
02-17-2013, 11:30 PM
The 911 is by all accounts flawed from the get go. Having the engine behind the rear wheels is not a good idea when you look at basic physics. The Cayman/Boxter has, on paper, a much better foundation for performance. Check 4:50 here:
Porsche knows that mid-engine is technically better. But they are stubborn and refuse to throw the rear engine 911 out the window.
I'm not saying the 911 cannot be a good car. It IS a good car. But a mid-engine car is a much better starting platform. The reason the rear-engined 911 is good is that it has 50 years of R&D into it. The Boxter/Cayman platform has been around for 10 years and is pretty damn close to the 50 year old 911 platform. Some would say it can even be better if Porsche would "let it be".
Porsche knows that mid-engine is technically better. But they are stubborn and refuse to throw the rear engine 911 out the window.
I'm not saying the 911 cannot be a good car. It IS a good car. But a mid-engine car is a much better starting platform. The reason the rear-engined 911 is good is that it has 50 years of R&D into it. The Boxter/Cayman platform has been around for 10 years and is pretty damn close to the 50 year old 911 platform. Some would say it can even be better if Porsche would "let it be".
#80
02-17-2013, 11:50 PM
The 911 is by all accounts flawed from the get go. Having the engine behind the rear wheels is not a good idea when you look at basic physics. The Cayman/Boxter has, on paper, a much better foundation for performance. Check 4:50 here:
Porsche knows that mid-engine is technically better. But they are stubborn and refuse to throw the rear engine 911 out the window.
I'm not saying the 911 cannot be a good car. It IS a good car. But a mid-engine car is a much better starting platform. The reason the rear-engined 911 is good is that it has 50 years of R&D into it. The Boxter/Cayman platform has been around for 10 years and is pretty damn close to the 50 year old 911 platform. Some would say it can even be better if Porsche would "let it be".
Porsche knows that mid-engine is technically better. But they are stubborn and refuse to throw the rear engine 911 out the window.
I'm not saying the 911 cannot be a good car. It IS a good car. But a mid-engine car is a much better starting platform. The reason the rear-engined 911 is good is that it has 50 years of R&D into it. The Boxter/Cayman platform has been around for 10 years and is pretty damn close to the 50 year old 911 platform. Some would say it can even be better if Porsche would "let it be".
#81
02-18-2013, 05:12 AM
Maybe Porsche could make a Cayman that is faster and handles better than the 991 but they don't so it is a moot point. The 911 also looks better IMO. I have a 13 991 S and the wife a 13 Boxter S and while I haven't gotten them to the track yet, as fast as I can drive on the road, they handle a little different but it is a draw as to which is more fun. Obviously the technical layout of the 911 doesn't bother Porsche because that is what they choose to race primarily AND they do pretty well with it.
#82
02-18-2013, 05:58 AM
Basically - imagine where the 911 would be today, if the engine was more towards the center of the car (not necessarily a 50/50, but a little different).
I feel the Cayman is much more balanced (based on my driving style and preferences).
Nobody is saying the 911 ISN'T a great car, fun to drive, perhaps just speculation that it would be better if it was mid-engined, and poured in 50 years of the same R&D to advance that platform.
#83
02-18-2013, 09:29 AM
Even my wife agrees and she is not a fan of the sport bucket seats in my Cayman R.
Saturday I had her drive my Cayman to the track as the new 991 C2S was too loud (!?). She said - the Cayman was more fun to drive. Now I need to get the key back!
Saturday I had her drive my Cayman to the track as the new 991 C2S was too loud (!?). She said - the Cayman was more fun to drive. Now I need to get the key back!
#84
02-18-2013, 11:49 AM
Interesting...my wife prefers the 991 to our previous Boxster, mainly due to what to her is a 'more solid ride, and an improved sense of openness' but she doesn't appreciatle the lack of storage cubby holes, door arm rest room, or not having a second trunk.
She loves to shop
She loves to shop
#85
02-18-2013, 12:01 PM
When I was an NSX owner, it was the same rhetoric from S2000 owners.
Generally a current NSX owner would have an S2000 to have a less expensive car for track duty only (and many did).
Never did I see an NSX owner sell his car for the S2000 unless it was for financial reasons.
I had both & no comparison.
Generally a current NSX owner would have an S2000 to have a less expensive car for track duty only (and many did).
Never did I see an NSX owner sell his car for the S2000 unless it was for financial reasons.
I had both & no comparison.
Nice, NSX. I have one too. You don't see too many in white, especially 02-05.
#86
02-18-2013, 12:09 PM
I wasn't going to post anything... as i usually do not when it comes to these types of threads as it almost always will involve the inavitability of raisng one person's pride and joy over someone elses... but these types of threads seem to keep popping up so I'll finally put my 2 cents in.
Let me start by saying I have owned both a Boxter and Cayman... they are great track cars which are a ton of fun... like a big go-cart.
That said, here's the problem with these supposed "journalists" and their opinions, because make no mistake about it...that is all it is, one mans opinion!
Most (99.9%) of them (journo's) do not and never will make the kind of $$ of their "hosting gig" which will allow them to actually purchase a nicely appointed 991 while it's under the original warranty, never mind brand new.
That is unless they own the production company, the magazine etc or are in the league of the Top Gear boys (UK BBC production only).
As such most automotive journo's (as is in our nature) play to the crowd in their shoes... while having in the back of their mind that the Boxter or Cayman may just be in their future with a bit of luck... so the less costly, lesser performing "baby" 911 becomes a more desirable car (if not even a truer and supperior sports car!) than the icon, the flagship the one all others are compared to... the 911.
I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a kid with posters of that amazing iconic "Boxter" on his walls... nor do I know any non sports car owners whom (if given the choice at no cost) would pick a boxter or Cayman over the 911...
No, anyone whom says a Boxter is a preferable to a 991 is lying to themselves.
I have yet to meet a 911 owner which would trade his icon in for a Boxter, but have seen many, many Boxter and Cayman owner ultimately end up in a 911...
Now add to this equation that we are talking about a 991... arguably the most powerful if not superior performing 911 build to date.
For me the Boxter and Cayman fall in a similar category as the Lotus Elise and Exige...some of the most underrated fun track cars a person can have... but they are no icon and as long as the 911 is around... they never will be.
So in the end it comes down to how these very, very different cars (Boxter/Cayman and 991) are presented and by whom...
Which takes us to the type of opinions rising from individuals whom have given themselves the title of " automotive journalists"... effectively giving them the credit of "experts"... after driving something for a few hours and then getting back into their pick-up truck...
I'll say this, no person will appreciate something as much as when they had to pay for the privilege of ownership and the knowledge derived from it's consequent daily interaction.
That's why I love these types of forums, you get feedback from people whom not just actually own the cars they are talking about... they view their rides as an experience... not just "a mode of transportation".
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
My 2 cents...OK maybe that was more like 200 cents.
Let me start by saying I have owned both a Boxter and Cayman... they are great track cars which are a ton of fun... like a big go-cart.
That said, here's the problem with these supposed "journalists" and their opinions, because make no mistake about it...that is all it is, one mans opinion!
Most (99.9%) of them (journo's) do not and never will make the kind of $$ of their "hosting gig" which will allow them to actually purchase a nicely appointed 991 while it's under the original warranty, never mind brand new.
That is unless they own the production company, the magazine etc or are in the league of the Top Gear boys (UK BBC production only).
As such most automotive journo's (as is in our nature) play to the crowd in their shoes... while having in the back of their mind that the Boxter or Cayman may just be in their future with a bit of luck... so the less costly, lesser performing "baby" 911 becomes a more desirable car (if not even a truer and supperior sports car!) than the icon, the flagship the one all others are compared to... the 911.
I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a kid with posters of that amazing iconic "Boxter" on his walls... nor do I know any non sports car owners whom (if given the choice at no cost) would pick a boxter or Cayman over the 911...
No, anyone whom says a Boxter is a preferable to a 991 is lying to themselves.
I have yet to meet a 911 owner which would trade his icon in for a Boxter, but have seen many, many Boxter and Cayman owner ultimately end up in a 911...
Now add to this equation that we are talking about a 991... arguably the most powerful if not superior performing 911 build to date.
For me the Boxter and Cayman fall in a similar category as the Lotus Elise and Exige...some of the most underrated fun track cars a person can have... but they are no icon and as long as the 911 is around... they never will be.
So in the end it comes down to how these very, very different cars (Boxter/Cayman and 991) are presented and by whom...
Which takes us to the type of opinions rising from individuals whom have given themselves the title of " automotive journalists"... effectively giving them the credit of "experts"... after driving something for a few hours and then getting back into their pick-up truck...
I'll say this, no person will appreciate something as much as when they had to pay for the privilege of ownership and the knowledge derived from it's consequent daily interaction.
That's why I love these types of forums, you get feedback from people whom not just actually own the cars they are talking about... they view their rides as an experience... not just "a mode of transportation".
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.
There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...
My 2 cents...OK maybe that was more like 200 cents.
The Cayman S is so neutral and doesn't have the understeer the 911 has. That alone made me choose the CS. Both are great cars, there is no wrong answer, choose what you like best.
If you buy purely on a drivers car, to me its CS hands down, but most people buy for prestige or that the 911 is an icon, etc, and that's fine, the 911 is a great car.
I'm sure there is a new Cayman S and 991 in my future.
#87
02-18-2013, 12:42 PM
Driven back to back the 991 is better in every way than the 981. You really have to test drive them like I did, on the track one right after the other. I drove the 981S first, the 991 base, the 981S again, then finally the 991S. The 981S had more understeer than both 991s, and the handling on the 991S was also better and more fun. Is it worth $40K more for the 991S, that is the big question though? If budget were an issue, then value goes to the 981S hands down, however, it is not a better car.
#88
02-18-2013, 12:56 PM
Please share your opinion of this with me. Because other than marketing, I can't figure this out.
#89
02-18-2013, 01:14 PM
The same argument can be made between the base Carrera and a GT3, and those are the exact same car. The reason the 981 is held back is because it costs less money. None would buy a 981 if it cost as much as a 991. Same reason Nissan is holding back the 370Z.
#90
02-18-2013, 03:25 PM
I'm not knocking the 911, I had one, and probably will own another, I just think Porsche hit a Home-run with the Cayman S.