Originally Posted by mrstep

Or another great idea - why doesn't Porsche bring a mid-engined car to market and call it something else? Then people who specifically want a 2 seater mid-engine car can buy that?

I'm going to send this one in to PNA and see if it goes anywhere.

Originally Posted by jaspergtr

I think you're missing my entire point.

To finish that memo to PNA, please add Turbo and optional AWD. Or at the least - put the 911 engine in the Cayman/Boxster.

That will be all. Until the new R8 comes out - the only car 500HP+, mid engine, AWD, with a dual clutch is ... a Veyron.

Originally Posted by chuckbdc

I have an idea- since they already have carefully engineered a Boxter and Cayman positioned and marketed to sell as their entry offerings- and obvious bargains in their range compared to anything else, suggest that they call it the 918 or 960.

Originally Posted by tx11

You are missing the point. Mid engine is a small part of the equation and obviously not of concern to Porsche because they have chosen rear engine for their primary race car, the 911 which doesn't have too bad of a race record.

Originally Posted by Psycho Sid

I wasn't going to post anything... as i usually do not when it comes to these types of threads as it almost always will involve the inavitability of raisng one person's pride and joy over someone elses... but these types of threads seem to keep popping up so I'll finally put my 2 cents in.

Let me start by saying I have owned both a Boxter and Cayman... they are great track cars which are a ton of fun... like a big go-cart.

That said, here's the problem with these supposed "journalists" and their opinions, because make no mistake about it...that is all it is, one mans opinion!
Most (99.9%) of them (journo's) do not and never will make the kind of $$ of their "hosting gig" which will allow them to actually purchase a nicely appointed 991 while it's under the original warranty, never mind brand new.
That is unless they own the production company, the magazine etc or are in the league of the Top Gear boys (UK BBC production only).

As such most automotive journo's (as is in our nature) play to the crowd in their shoes... while having in the back of their mind that the Boxter or Cayman may just be in their future with a bit of luck... so the less costly, lesser performing "baby" 911 becomes a more desirable car (if not even a truer and supperior sports car!) than the icon, the flagship the one all others are compared to... the 911.

I don't know about you guys but I've never seen a kid with posters of that amazing iconic "Boxter" on his walls... nor do I know any non sports car owners whom (if given the choice at no cost) would pick a boxter or Cayman over the 911...

No, anyone whom says a Boxter is a preferable to a 991 is lying to themselves.
I have yet to meet a 911 owner which would trade his icon in for a Boxter, but have seen many, many Boxter and Cayman owner ultimately end up in a 911...

Now add to this equation that we are talking about a 991... arguably the most powerful if not superior performing 911 build to date.
For me the Boxter and Cayman fall in a similar category as the Lotus Elise and Exige...some of the most underrated fun track cars a person can have... but they are no icon and as long as the 911 is around... they never will be.

So in the end it comes down to how these very, very different cars (Boxter/Cayman and 991) are presented and by whom...
Which takes us to the type of opinions rising from individuals whom have given themselves the title of " automotive journalists"... effectively giving them the credit of "experts"... after driving something for a few hours and then getting back into their pick-up truck...

I'll say this, no person will appreciate something as much as when they had to pay for the privilege of ownership and the knowledge derived from it's consequent daily interaction.
That's why I love these types of forums, you get feedback from people whom not just actually own the cars they are talking about... they view their rides as an experience... not just "a mode of transportation".
People whom (for the most part) have owned more and less expensive sports cars but are drawn back to the 911 because of it's uniquely engineered and designed behavior from which they derive so much pleasure... it's art, something to behold... at times it can even border on a spiritual experience, a capsule which when entered can transport you to another space of mind... something, calming, exciting, scary or invigorating... something we love, it communicates to us as we communicate to it... something which can put a grin on our face and make us feel like a 10 year old...those are the type of individuals whom I'm interested in hearing from.

There are a few journo's whom have that sense of connection, they understand it and can verbalize it through the appropriate disposition (without envy, pride or predious) like a Chris Harris... but most just love the sound of their own voice and go out of their way to find something, anything negative to say about vehicles they only wish they would have in their garage... just so they can appear to be "in the know".
Yet others whom do have a better understanding and appreciations of the complexity in the relationship between man and machine get caught up in the intellectual masturbation and entirely miss the point that a 911 is about more than the sum of it's parts...

My 2 cents...OK maybe that was more like 200 cents.

Originally Posted by bbywu

When Steve Sutcliffe says everything is "pretty much brand spanking new" what he means is everything is new, except the grab bag of parts from the old parts bin.

Originally Posted by bbywu

All manufacturers, including Porsche, use carry overs from a general parts. We'll see what internals were borrowed when the parts catalog comes out.

BTW - I'm not criticizing Porsche...I'm just criticizing the fawning praise by Autocar on a review that provided no substance.

Originally Posted by PDR447

There are several cars out there that are simply desirable because they are *the XXXX*. Some examples:

The Mustang
The Corvette
The 911
The M3/5

These cars have heritage and hold a place is peoples hearts' simply for their title. That doesn't mean that they aren't great cars, many of them are. But irregardless of their performance people will alway buy them because they want to own *the XXXX*.

Porsche's marketing as well as just general pop culture has conditioned people to want the 911. Any other Porsche "isn't a real Porsche". That's fine and the 911 is definitely a great car to drive and own. It's well built, well appointed, and just a nice place to be.

But that doesn't mean that another car can't be better or close to the 911 in terms of performance. The 458 and GTR are a couple examples. Also, as per the topic of this thread, the Cayman is a pretty damn good car as well. Sure, it's not a "real Porsche". But take a step back, forget about the crest on the hood, and just look at it as a car for a second.

Where some people get annoyed is that it feels like the Cayman is being limited to keep it from beating the 911. Imagine if the Cayman was made by a competitor for a second. Maybe BMW or Lotus. Same car, different badge. You better believe they would put the best motor they had in it. Porsche has a motor(the 911 motor) that would "drop in" but they chose to develop a different, less powerful motor. Why?

Originally Posted by Alan

It seems that the choice between the Cayman and the 991 is not so much about "the better car" or "the better value", but rather the 991's legendary history and the practicality of two rear seats. At least from the sampling of this board, there seems to be many owners with young children that love to take them and the wife on that lovely Saturday afternoon drive. I know I did. If the Cayman had a 3.8 liter option, it still wouldn't have those 2 back seats and I'm guessing that most would still opt for the practicality and iconic status of the 991. I cannot fathom why Porsche wouldn't build a "GT3" version of the Cayman (and Boxster) for those of us who would love a 400 hp mid engine car. Now that the exterior and interior design and quality of the Cayman/Boxster are so improved, adding a more powerful engine and a price point around $100K would certainly have me dumping my R8.

Originally Posted by Manifold

Have to agree that putting more power, better brakes, etc. in the Cayman would make it a real rival to the 991, and likely steal considerable sales from it (and other cars). There's very much a place for an 'affordable' (~$100K) mid-engine two-seater coupe which is about as good as Porsche can make it.

There may be a market segment that wants the rear seats of the 991, but the size of human that fits back there is rather small, especially if a full-size human is up front (been there, done that).