PDK vs Manual?
#18
11-10-2013, 08:53 AM
For me, I have another manual car and am getting lazy, so PDK it is.
#19
11-10-2013, 10:22 AM
Howdy
The other day I test drove a PDK 911 and I didn't really like it.
I am used to driving a 997 manual.
However, I realize everything takes some time getting used to.
Was the 991 really designed for PDK ? What are the advantages of both ?
Sorry for this parasitic post. Just curious.
The other day I test drove a PDK 911 and I didn't really like it.
I am used to driving a 997 manual.
However, I realize everything takes some time getting used to.
Was the 991 really designed for PDK ? What are the advantages of both ?
Sorry for this parasitic post. Just curious.
#21
11-10-2013, 12:22 PM
If you don't like the PDK, it should be an easy choice for you. Of course it all DEPENDS on your particular circumstances, which you haven't chosen to describe. It's what YOU like best....which doesn't sound like the PDK. Do some research, do a search, or go over to Rxxxlist for a painfully long discussion of opinions.
They are both excellent transmissions.
#22
11-10-2013, 03:23 PM
I would link the article, but it does not yet appear on the internet, only in magazine print as yet. So I will quote it. For the November 2014 issue of Excellence, accomplished racer David Donohue (son of Porsche legend Mark Donohue) test-drove the new GT3 and wrote his review.
Although a number of posters will immediately wear out their keyboards responding that he's wrong, he had this to say about the PDK:
"After listening to a lot of opinions and drawing my own conclusions about a 2-pedal tranny in the GT3, I've come up with three schools of thought on PDK. I created these groups with no prejudice: each one has merit.
The Enthusiast Newcomers: These are owners who might be new to the sport or just haven't gotten the knack of the heel-toe downshift - or shifting in general for that matter.There's a good chance they couldn't care less about it, too. Folks in this category enjoy driving just as much as those in the next two categories, but they just cannot reach their ultimate potential in a manual car because of that silly shifting thing, and they become frustrated and even sometimes are an accident waiting to happen. Shops love them because of the extra tranny work (and sometimes even engine rebuilds), but those warm feelings are rarely mutual. PDK allows this group to run with the more experienced right away: immediate gratification without all the hoopla about shifting.
The Diehard Enthusiast: These people not only love to drive but love the whole process. (They might be control freaks too, but iron-fist control might not always be a good trait in the give-and-take on the race track). Nevertheless, control is part of the enjoyment of driving, both on and off the track. Perhaps in part becasue so few folks in the States can even drive a manual car these days, it gives these traditionalists a sense of exclusivity knowing that, sadly,most of the population literally cannot manage three pedals, and so they take pride in their skill.
The Phlegmatic Thrill Seekers (Yep, I used the Thesaurus on this one!): These folks can heel-toe without a thought, and therefore don't get any real satisfaction from it (I don't even realize when I'm doing it). They enjoy the driving experience just as much as the other two but are not all that worked up about the process. They tend to look at new approaches and evaluate them at face value, even though their evaluations may, at times, be off (some self-assessment going on here ... I am part of this group). They'll leave it in auto, let it sing to (red line) all day long, and just enjoy the high-pitched scream you get in those last few rpm.
- David Donohue"
I think Donohue is correct on all counts and hopefully supplies some rationality to the never-ending, unwinnable debate over Manual vs. PDK. And he brought up an interesting point I had never considered before.......driving spiritedly in PDK Auto (assuming in Sport+) does give you the perfect shift at red line, something only attainable in PDK Manual if conditions actually allow you to take your eyes off the road so you can see the tach and hit the paddle an instant before hitting the power-sapping rev-limiter. Or if your peripheral vision and reflexes are good enough. Red line in the Carrera S is 7600 rpms. His point is that if you're under Wide Open Throttle and pull the paddle at 7400, you just left 200 rpms on the table and it's your loss.
Nevertheless,
1). Find yourself above.
2) Discuss why your category is the best and the other two are for weenies.
Although a number of posters will immediately wear out their keyboards responding that he's wrong, he had this to say about the PDK:
"After listening to a lot of opinions and drawing my own conclusions about a 2-pedal tranny in the GT3, I've come up with three schools of thought on PDK. I created these groups with no prejudice: each one has merit.
The Enthusiast Newcomers: These are owners who might be new to the sport or just haven't gotten the knack of the heel-toe downshift - or shifting in general for that matter.There's a good chance they couldn't care less about it, too. Folks in this category enjoy driving just as much as those in the next two categories, but they just cannot reach their ultimate potential in a manual car because of that silly shifting thing, and they become frustrated and even sometimes are an accident waiting to happen. Shops love them because of the extra tranny work (and sometimes even engine rebuilds), but those warm feelings are rarely mutual. PDK allows this group to run with the more experienced right away: immediate gratification without all the hoopla about shifting.
The Diehard Enthusiast: These people not only love to drive but love the whole process. (They might be control freaks too, but iron-fist control might not always be a good trait in the give-and-take on the race track). Nevertheless, control is part of the enjoyment of driving, both on and off the track. Perhaps in part becasue so few folks in the States can even drive a manual car these days, it gives these traditionalists a sense of exclusivity knowing that, sadly,most of the population literally cannot manage three pedals, and so they take pride in their skill.
The Phlegmatic Thrill Seekers (Yep, I used the Thesaurus on this one!): These folks can heel-toe without a thought, and therefore don't get any real satisfaction from it (I don't even realize when I'm doing it). They enjoy the driving experience just as much as the other two but are not all that worked up about the process. They tend to look at new approaches and evaluate them at face value, even though their evaluations may, at times, be off (some self-assessment going on here ... I am part of this group). They'll leave it in auto, let it sing to (red line) all day long, and just enjoy the high-pitched scream you get in those last few rpm.
- David Donohue"
I think Donohue is correct on all counts and hopefully supplies some rationality to the never-ending, unwinnable debate over Manual vs. PDK. And he brought up an interesting point I had never considered before.......driving spiritedly in PDK Auto (assuming in Sport+) does give you the perfect shift at red line, something only attainable in PDK Manual if conditions actually allow you to take your eyes off the road so you can see the tach and hit the paddle an instant before hitting the power-sapping rev-limiter. Or if your peripheral vision and reflexes are good enough. Red line in the Carrera S is 7600 rpms. His point is that if you're under Wide Open Throttle and pull the paddle at 7400, you just left 200 rpms on the table and it's your loss.
Nevertheless,
1). Find yourself above.
2) Discuss why your category is the best and the other two are for weenies.
Last edited by TTCarrera; 11-10-2013 at 03:42 PM.
#24
11-10-2013, 04:53 PM
I would link the article, but it does not yet appear on the internet, only in magazine print as yet. So I will quote it. For the November 2014 issue of Excellence, accomplished racer David Donohue (son of Porsche legend Mark Donohue) test-drove the new GT3 and wrote his review.
Although a number of posters will immediately wear out their keyboards responding that he's wrong, he had this to say about the PDK:
"After listening to a lot of opinions and drawing my own conclusions about a 2-pedal tranny in the GT3, I've come up with three schools of thought on PDK. I created these groups with no prejudice: each one has merit.
The Enthusiast Newcomers: These are owners who might be new to the sport or just haven't gotten the knack of the heel-toe downshift - or shifting in general for that matter.There's a good chance they couldn't care less about it, too. Folks in this category enjoy driving just as much as those in the next two categories, but they just cannot reach their ultimate potential in a manual car because of that silly shifting thing, and they become frustrated and even sometimes are an accident waiting to happen. Shops love them because of the extra tranny work (and sometimes even engine rebuilds), but those warm feelings are rarely mutual. PDK allows this group to run with the more experienced right away: immediate gratification without all the hoopla about shifting.
The Diehard Enthusiast: These people not only love to drive but love the whole process. (They might be control freaks too, but iron-fist control might not always be a good trait in the give-and-take on the race track). Nevertheless, control is part of the enjoyment of driving, both on and off the track. Perhaps in part becasue so few folks in the States can even drive a manual car these days, it gives these traditionalists a sense of exclusivity knowing that, sadly,most of the population literally cannot manage three pedals, and so they take pride in their skill.
The Phlegmatic Thrill Seekers (Yep, I used the Thesaurus on this one!): These folks can heel-toe without a thought, and therefore don't get any real satisfaction from it (I don't even realize when I'm doing it). They enjoy the driving experience just as much as the other two but are not all that worked up about the process. They tend to look at new approaches and evaluate them at face value, even though their evaluations may, at times, be off (some self-assessment going on here ... I am part of this group). They'll leave it in auto, let it sing to (red line) all day long, and just enjoy the high-pitched scream you get in those last few rpm.
- David Donohue"
I think Donohue is correct on all counts and hopefully supplies some rationality to the never-ending, unwinnable debate over Manual vs. PDK. And he brought up an interesting point I had never considered before.......driving spiritedly in PDK Auto (assuming in Sport+) does give you the perfect shift at red line, something only attainable in PDK Manual if conditions actually allow you to take your eyes off the road so you can see the tach and hit the paddle an instant before hitting the power-sapping rev-limiter. Or if your peripheral vision and reflexes are good enough. Red line in the Carrera S is 7600 rpms. His point is that if you're under Wide Open Throttle and pull the paddle at 7400, you just left 200 rpms on the table and it's your loss.
Nevertheless,
1). Find yourself above.
2) Discuss why your category is the best and the other two are for weenies.
Although a number of posters will immediately wear out their keyboards responding that he's wrong, he had this to say about the PDK:
"After listening to a lot of opinions and drawing my own conclusions about a 2-pedal tranny in the GT3, I've come up with three schools of thought on PDK. I created these groups with no prejudice: each one has merit.
The Enthusiast Newcomers: These are owners who might be new to the sport or just haven't gotten the knack of the heel-toe downshift - or shifting in general for that matter.There's a good chance they couldn't care less about it, too. Folks in this category enjoy driving just as much as those in the next two categories, but they just cannot reach their ultimate potential in a manual car because of that silly shifting thing, and they become frustrated and even sometimes are an accident waiting to happen. Shops love them because of the extra tranny work (and sometimes even engine rebuilds), but those warm feelings are rarely mutual. PDK allows this group to run with the more experienced right away: immediate gratification without all the hoopla about shifting.
The Diehard Enthusiast: These people not only love to drive but love the whole process. (They might be control freaks too, but iron-fist control might not always be a good trait in the give-and-take on the race track). Nevertheless, control is part of the enjoyment of driving, both on and off the track. Perhaps in part becasue so few folks in the States can even drive a manual car these days, it gives these traditionalists a sense of exclusivity knowing that, sadly,most of the population literally cannot manage three pedals, and so they take pride in their skill.
The Phlegmatic Thrill Seekers (Yep, I used the Thesaurus on this one!): These folks can heel-toe without a thought, and therefore don't get any real satisfaction from it (I don't even realize when I'm doing it). They enjoy the driving experience just as much as the other two but are not all that worked up about the process. They tend to look at new approaches and evaluate them at face value, even though their evaluations may, at times, be off (some self-assessment going on here ... I am part of this group). They'll leave it in auto, let it sing to (red line) all day long, and just enjoy the high-pitched scream you get in those last few rpm.
- David Donohue"
I think Donohue is correct on all counts and hopefully supplies some rationality to the never-ending, unwinnable debate over Manual vs. PDK. And he brought up an interesting point I had never considered before.......driving spiritedly in PDK Auto (assuming in Sport+) does give you the perfect shift at red line, something only attainable in PDK Manual if conditions actually allow you to take your eyes off the road so you can see the tach and hit the paddle an instant before hitting the power-sapping rev-limiter. Or if your peripheral vision and reflexes are good enough. Red line in the Carrera S is 7600 rpms. His point is that if you're under Wide Open Throttle and pull the paddle at 7400, you just left 200 rpms on the table and it's your loss.
Nevertheless,
1). Find yourself above.
2) Discuss why your category is the best and the other two are for weenies.
Love it.
#27
11-10-2013, 05:48 PM
I would link the article, but it does not yet appear on the internet, only in magazine print as yet. So I will quote it. For the November 2014 issue of Excellence, accomplished racer David Donohue (son of Porsche legend Mark Donohue) test-drove the new GT3 and wrote his review. Although a number of posters will immediately wear out their keyboards responding that he's wrong, he had this to say about the PDK: "After listening to a lot of opinions and drawing my own conclusions about a 2-pedal tranny in the GT3, I've come up with three schools of thought on PDK. I created these groups with no prejudice: each one has merit. The Enthusiast Newcomers: These are owners who might be new to the sport or just haven't gotten the knack of the heel-toe downshift - or shifting in general for that matter.There's a good chance they couldn't care less about it, too. Folks in this category enjoy driving just as much as those in the next two categories, but they just cannot reach their ultimate potential in a manual car because of that silly shifting thing, and they become frustrated and even sometimes are an accident waiting to happen. Shops love them because of the extra tranny work (and sometimes even engine rebuilds), but those warm feelings are rarely mutual. PDK allows this group to run with the more experienced right away: immediate gratification without all the hoopla about shifting. The Diehard Enthusiast: These people not only love to drive but love the whole process. (They might be control freaks too, but iron-fist control might not always be a good trait in the give-and-take on the race track). Nevertheless, control is part of the enjoyment of driving, both on and off the track. Perhaps in part becasue so few folks in the States can even drive a manual car these days, it gives these traditionalists a sense of exclusivity knowing that, sadly,most of the population literally cannot manage three pedals, and so they take pride in their skill. The Phlegmatic Thrill Seekers (Yep, I used the Thesaurus on this one!): These folks can heel-toe without a thought, and therefore don't get any real satisfaction from it (I don't even realize when I'm doing it). They enjoy the driving experience just as much as the other two but are not all that worked up about the process. They tend to look at new approaches and evaluate them at face value, even though their evaluations may, at times, be off (some self-assessment going on here ... I am part of this group). They'll leave it in auto, let it sing to (red line) all day long, and just enjoy the high-pitched scream you get in those last few rpm. - David Donohue" I think Donohue is correct on all counts and hopefully supplies some rationality to the never-ending, unwinnable debate over Manual vs. PDK. And he brought up an interesting point I had never considered before.......driving spiritedly in PDK Auto (assuming in Sport+) does give you the perfect shift at red line, something only attainable in PDK Manual if conditions actually allow you to take your eyes off the road so you can see the tach and hit the paddle an instant before hitting the power-sapping rev-limiter. Or if your peripheral vision and reflexes are good enough. Red line in the Carrera S is 7600 rpms. His point is that if you're under Wide Open Throttle and pull the paddle at 7400, you just left 200 rpms on the table and it's your loss. Nevertheless, 1). Find yourself above. 2) Discuss why your category is the best and the other two are for weenies.
I'm not a boy racer. I can heel toe shift and I don't care what anybody thinks about my cars transmission
#28
11-10-2013, 05:56 PM
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I'm a combination of #2 and #3. On the track, I'm #3 - whatever makes the car fastest within the rules; off the track, I'm #2 - I enjoy the full involvement of the manual.
Thus, I think that either the PDK or MT can be a wise choice, depending on the intended use of the car.
My track car is a racing sequential (clutchless shifting after we leave pit lane); my street car is a three-pedal manual.
Thus, I think that either the PDK or MT can be a wise choice, depending on the intended use of the car.
My track car is a racing sequential (clutchless shifting after we leave pit lane); my street car is a three-pedal manual.
#29
11-11-2013, 08:20 AM
Forgive me for the self promotion but I wrote an article on this a while ago which appeared on Jalopnik. There are benefits to both but I still personally prefer a manual to paddles. Well check out the article if you like for more thoughts.
