Double D on 30 bust, that is 911. Just look at it. M4/M3 may have more HP but they can never have the feel and look of a 911. They are DD on 40

BTW, if you want raw speed and HP then get a GTR and tune it with some simple ECU mods to get around 700HP.

 

Tell me 'bout it

 

I couldn't resist but add my 2 cents...

HP means nothing if you can't make it handle. I had a 270hp NSX which had better track times than my 500hp Viper. The ones who don't have the experience build cars from top to bottom (more power before anything else) and the ones who know what they are doing build cars from bottom up (safety equipment first, tires second, suspension third, ...., more power only when everything else is done right).

Please keep in mind that a lot of people have more fun in Miatas than any other car despite the low power.

 

I went through similar set of cars. I have not posted in this forum for many years, not since I sold my 2003 996 TT with X50 and went with 2006 V10 M5, then bought a 750 iL in 2009, both times had to be the "first in the block" with a new model BMW. This time, I waited a little but finally placed an order for C4S and eagerly awaiting my retrun to Porsche.

 

I still own a M3. And my 991 now makes my M3 just feel ordinary. They aren't really even in the same class. Doesn't mean I won't be getting a m4 in the future.

 

I've been in the Porsche family for 20 years and I learned a long time ago that Porsche
is a trend setter not a trend follower. I don't think the engineers at Porsche read the
newest edition of Road and Track and say, " We better get busy, the new Mustang GT
has 400 hp and it's a 1/3 of the price of our 911"

No other car on the road feels like a 911. The 911 shape is probably the most recognizable
in all of cardom. Porsche is never going to compete in the horsepower wars. The factory
will leave that up to Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge. Porsche will never build a car as perfect
as the Nissan GTR. Stuttgart will leave that sterile and empty pursuit to the Japanese.

If you want an imperfect car that's always a day late and a dollar short but brimming with
personality and one that offers a rather unique perspective of the world from its rather
plain cabin, stick with Porsche. If it's raw horsepower and perfection you seek, there's a
glut of cars to fit the bill. And most of which are much cheaper than Porsche.

 

In looking at many of your previous posts there is a theme that you seem to be very broadly unhappy with most aspects of your 991..

No car is perfect for everyone but it sounds like you have a dramatically different perspective than most of the 991 owners.. We argue about silly things endlessly like PDK vs M7 and many subjective issues.. And overall satisfaction with any car is subjective but if you are that unhappy you need to find something else you are more happy with.. life is short...

It sounds like a major gripe of yours is significantly lower performance than your previous 997s.... But you seem to be hanging on specs and comparisons to different cars that are out of context and meaningless.. HP and torque comparisons are meaningless without references.. it is the ratio's to their weight and actual performance that matter.. By your arguments a Caterpillar D11 bulldozer would be much more suitable since it has 936 HP...

The way you describe things is so exaggerated that I'd swear you were talking about a Prius.. so it tends to make people roll their eyes and ignore valid points you may have even if they disagree..

But in the end you seem to just be unhappy and are looking for a reason to divorce your 911.. If I were you I'd dump her without a dear john letter...

Lots of folks chime into the forum about how much they like their Vettes and are better and cheaper.. blah blah blah than a Porsche.. maybe you should try a Vette.. I'm sure your letters to Chevy would be taken much more seriously than they are to Porsche AG..

 

And 99% of drivers can't extract 75% of what the 991 offers. And if you are able to, you would
go to jail doing it on public roads.

 

I had two M3 cars (08 and 11) and numerous BMW's alongside my Porsches over the years . Even though the 4 series is an interesting vehicle it will never be a Porsche .

For starters I recall that you like manual gearboxes as do I. My last two M3 cars were manual and if there ever was an Achilles heel its the ill position of the shifter and wide spacing of this sloppy gearbox. I accepted it because the car itself is quite pratical and a bargain for what it offers as a daily driver .

Back in 08 the technology in Porsche was awful and the BMW at that time was so advanced compared it it but by the time 2009 came around Porsche had BMW beat .

in terms of cost to own price perks free service is a great thing and BMW does have it. If you lease cars then BMW is far advanced in terms of leasing . Also the M3 cars do hold their value and my guess is that an M4 will as well. An M5 and M6 are another story though .

The cars do offer great performance but there are certain areas of driving refinement where Porsche has such character .

Keep in mind that if I wasn't buying a Porsche I would buy a BMW . Even though I have mixed feelings about the 991 I would still be happier with a base car over a BMW .

One more thing .. you did mention the 90K to buy the car and 991 cars have not held value plus the M4 will be a "gottahaveit" newbie arrival. My opinion would be to get the full use out of that 991 car because making the swap isn't going to be cheap .

 

If the OP really values HP that much, maybe he is not really a Porsche driver (even after 20 years) ? I doubt that Porsche core values are max HP ! Porsche is all about the total package !

I'm sure the M4 will be a brilliant car, and I like BMW. But come on, you cant seriously put it on the same level as a 991 !

And those M4 450 HP, how many will be lost in smoke by the lack of traction ?

But actually all that is irrelevant. It is the OP's car. If the OP doesn't like his 991, he'd best sell it and get something he likes ! Life is too short to drive a car you don't like !

 

Your point being?

 

Hi Tromero! I do see your point and in many ways, I shared the same frustrations with Porsche. I had a 997.2S, which I found very underwhelming for $100K+ and sold it after 3 years and 15K miles. I wound up buying the E92 M3. I don't really have any brand loyalty, so I leave the Kool Aid at the door. What I discovered was that my M3 was pretty much a perfect all-around sporty car. I read a lot of the impressions of the M3 in this thread and really don't agree with many or all of them. Nor do most pro-level reviews. I don't think there is a test it hasn't won during it's model run.
But there are lots of caveats here. First, the 911 really does feel special and different than other cars. Note that I did not say 'better". I enjoyed it quite a bit and will remain a 'fan', but I was always bothered by the way it felt slow. Funny thing was, it wasn't slow. I believe that feeling is a product of the tall gearing and smooth powerband. My M3 puts down the same times as my C2S in accel, but feels much faster to me and other people who have ridden in it. At the price-point, this should not be the case. Another caveat is that the newer 991 is a leap beyond the 997, and addresses many issues that I had with the older car.
Regarding the newer BMWs, I really don't believe that the M4 is anything other than a loss of brand for BMW. Each year they get heavier and less connected with the road. They go the old-skool AMG way: no road feel, 600 LB/FT torque, traction control keeps you on the road. The car is a missile that you launch down the road. Well, I'll never want that or that type of car. If Lotus could build an Evora without using Duct-tape, that would be my next car. Either way, I bought my E92 (note I don't mention the flexy, heavy convertible version, a car that should not have been built) because it was the last of the normally aspirated, high revving, great handling BMWs. I have no optimism for the M4.
I'll be in a 991 this spring, but like you, I wish porsche would add just a touch of value to their cars. instead of being like, "SERIOUSLY??, $175 to put Emblems on the Wheels!?!?! On a $112K CAR?!?!"
Maybe porsche can try for this response, "nice, I was surprised that they included Option XYZ this year free of charge.... and the powerkit is now only $5,000....cool.." It won't help them sell cars in the short term, but I think it would add a little satisfaction to the non-lifestylers, and non-kool-aiders......

 

With nothing to compare it to except a 2005 NSX that I sold in 2010, this 2013 M3 DCT was a nice change (MSRP $84K). Hindsight - really wanted a 991S, but didn't want to spend $50K more at that time.

Three months into ownership I said goodbye & got the car I wanted in the 1st place. M3 was good, just not for me.

 

Yeah it's no 991, nor will it ever be. But still I like your orange M3 with the black wheels. Looks a bit like the GTS version !
M3 is on my shortlist as a cheap second hand car to trash around track with. Not going to do that to my dear 991. (allthough it's probably better equipped and suited to do so)

 

Blast! So I can't use that excuse.

I think the OP has left the building.
Another pointless thread....and I too participated!