Do You Carry A Gun In Your 991? DIY Secure Mount.
#46
12-28-2013 | 08:50 PM
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I've been a CCW holder for nearly 20 years and an action pistol shooter having participated in IPSC, IPSC 3-gun, and 3-gun Tactical matches all over the southeast including drawing and shooting while seated in prop vehicles.
It has been stated several times in this thread that a CCW holder should always carry on his or her person at all times. Further it was stated that the firearm should be in a kydex holster.
Promoting carrying on your person while driving is fine, however many methods of concealed carry which allow rapid access while standing are either very awkward / slow or downright impossible to draw from while seated in your car. Some examples:
- You might not appreciate them, but thunderwear are great when standing, lousy when seated.
- Ankle carry can be damn near impossible to draw when properly seated in a sports car.
- Small of the back carry is lousy for sitting in a bucket seat, not only from the perspective of the draw, but also for comfort.
- Pocket carry, I often carry a NAA revolver in my pocket in addition to a primary concealed weapon. Depending on the cut of your pants, a pocket pistol in the pocket of your slacks is not going to be very speedy when you need it whilst sitting in your P-car.
On the other hand there are modes of carry that suit themselves well to carry while in an automobile. Shoulder holsters or a gun undershirt under a quick access shirt from 5.11 tactical immediately come to mind for super discrete carry. For a less discrete mode of carry, one I particularly like, is a fanny pack. Fanny packs work well from standing, work pretty well from sitting and have that "I'm carrying" subliminal message going for them.
991TurboS - I like your idea with the seat belt though I tend to look for a slightly more discrete mode of carry for myself. I'm always looking for a new way to carry in a vehicle as I have taken to pocket pistols and like to transition the firearm to a secondary location when driving.
For anyone that promotes a particular mode of carry while driving - before you start spreading your wisdom be sure to go out to your vehicle, get yourself in the proper, upright, good distance from the wheel driving position and practice some draws.
On the choice of holster material, kydex is a good material though it, like every other material, has drawbacks. While kydex wears like iron, it is also stiff and unflexible and can be uncomfortable - poking, rubbing, etc. Holster style, shape and material is almost as personal a decision as your concealed carry location on your body. I can say that if you know some other folks that carry concealed, get with them and try as many holsters and configurations for your selected mode of carry as possible. Everyone I know that carries concealed on a regular basis has a collection of holsters that they thought would be perfect ... until they wore it for a week or two.
Ryan
It has been stated several times in this thread that a CCW holder should always carry on his or her person at all times. Further it was stated that the firearm should be in a kydex holster.
Promoting carrying on your person while driving is fine, however many methods of concealed carry which allow rapid access while standing are either very awkward / slow or downright impossible to draw from while seated in your car. Some examples:
- You might not appreciate them, but thunderwear are great when standing, lousy when seated.
- Ankle carry can be damn near impossible to draw when properly seated in a sports car.
- Small of the back carry is lousy for sitting in a bucket seat, not only from the perspective of the draw, but also for comfort.
- Pocket carry, I often carry a NAA revolver in my pocket in addition to a primary concealed weapon. Depending on the cut of your pants, a pocket pistol in the pocket of your slacks is not going to be very speedy when you need it whilst sitting in your P-car.
On the other hand there are modes of carry that suit themselves well to carry while in an automobile. Shoulder holsters or a gun undershirt under a quick access shirt from 5.11 tactical immediately come to mind for super discrete carry. For a less discrete mode of carry, one I particularly like, is a fanny pack. Fanny packs work well from standing, work pretty well from sitting and have that "I'm carrying" subliminal message going for them.
991TurboS - I like your idea with the seat belt though I tend to look for a slightly more discrete mode of carry for myself. I'm always looking for a new way to carry in a vehicle as I have taken to pocket pistols and like to transition the firearm to a secondary location when driving.
For anyone that promotes a particular mode of carry while driving - before you start spreading your wisdom be sure to go out to your vehicle, get yourself in the proper, upright, good distance from the wheel driving position and practice some draws.
On the choice of holster material, kydex is a good material though it, like every other material, has drawbacks. While kydex wears like iron, it is also stiff and unflexible and can be uncomfortable - poking, rubbing, etc. Holster style, shape and material is almost as personal a decision as your concealed carry location on your body. I can say that if you know some other folks that carry concealed, get with them and try as many holsters and configurations for your selected mode of carry as possible. Everyone I know that carries concealed on a regular basis has a collection of holsters that they thought would be perfect ... until they wore it for a week or two.
Ryan
Last edited by reidry; 12-28-2013 at 08:53 PM.
#47
12-28-2013 | 09:20 PM
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I've been a CCW holder for nearly 20 years and an action pistol shooter having participated in IPSC, IPSC 3-gun, and 3-gun Tactical matches all over the southeast including drawing and shooting while seated in prop vehicles.
It has been stated several times in this thread that a CCW holder should always carry on his or her person at all times. Further it was stated that the firearm should be in a kydex holster.
Promoting carrying on your person while driving is fine, however many methods of concealed carry which allow rapid access while standing are either very awkward / slow or downright impossible to draw from while seated in your car. Some examples:
- You might not appreciate them, but thunderwear are great when standing, lousy when seated.
- Ankle carry can be damn near impossible to draw when properly seated in a sports car.
- Small of the back carry is lousy for sitting in a bucket seat, not only from the perspective of the draw, but also for comfort.
- Pocket carry, I often carry a NAA revolver in my pocket in addition to a primary concealed weapon. Depending on the cut of your pants, a pocket pistol in the pocket of your slacks is not going to be very speedy when you need it whilst sitting in your P-car.
On the other hand there are modes of carry that suit themselves well to carry while in an automobile. Shoulder holsters or a gun undershirt under a quick access shirt from 5.11 tactical immediately come to mind for super discrete carry. For a less discrete mode of carry, one I particularly like, is a fanny pack. Fanny packs work well from standing, work pretty well from sitting and have that "I'm carrying" subliminal message going for them.
991TurboS - I like your idea with the seat belt though I tend to look for a slightly more discrete mode of carry for myself. I'm always looking for a new way to carry in a vehicle as I have taken to pocket pistols and like to transition the firearm to a secondary location when driving.
For anyone that promotes a particular mode of carry while driving - before you start spreading your wisdom be sure to go out to your vehicle, get yourself in the proper, upright, good distance from the wheel driving position and practice some draws.
On the choice of holster material, kydex is a good material though it, like every other material, has drawbacks. While kydex wears like iron, it is also stiff and unflexible and can be uncomfortable - poking, rubbing, etc. Holster style, shape and material is almost as personal a decision as your concealed carry location on your body. I can say that if you know some other folks that carry concealed, get with them and try as many holsters and configurations for your selected mode of carry as possible. Everyone I know that carries concealed on a regular basis has a collection of holsters that they thought would be perfect ... until they wore it for a week or two.
Ryan
It has been stated several times in this thread that a CCW holder should always carry on his or her person at all times. Further it was stated that the firearm should be in a kydex holster.
Promoting carrying on your person while driving is fine, however many methods of concealed carry which allow rapid access while standing are either very awkward / slow or downright impossible to draw from while seated in your car. Some examples:
- You might not appreciate them, but thunderwear are great when standing, lousy when seated.
- Ankle carry can be damn near impossible to draw when properly seated in a sports car.
- Small of the back carry is lousy for sitting in a bucket seat, not only from the perspective of the draw, but also for comfort.
- Pocket carry, I often carry a NAA revolver in my pocket in addition to a primary concealed weapon. Depending on the cut of your pants, a pocket pistol in the pocket of your slacks is not going to be very speedy when you need it whilst sitting in your P-car.
On the other hand there are modes of carry that suit themselves well to carry while in an automobile. Shoulder holsters or a gun undershirt under a quick access shirt from 5.11 tactical immediately come to mind for super discrete carry. For a less discrete mode of carry, one I particularly like, is a fanny pack. Fanny packs work well from standing, work pretty well from sitting and have that "I'm carrying" subliminal message going for them.
991TurboS - I like your idea with the seat belt though I tend to look for a slightly more discrete mode of carry for myself. I'm always looking for a new way to carry in a vehicle as I have taken to pocket pistols and like to transition the firearm to a secondary location when driving.
For anyone that promotes a particular mode of carry while driving - before you start spreading your wisdom be sure to go out to your vehicle, get yourself in the proper, upright, good distance from the wheel driving position and practice some draws.
On the choice of holster material, kydex is a good material though it, like every other material, has drawbacks. While kydex wears like iron, it is also stiff and unflexible and can be uncomfortable - poking, rubbing, etc. Holster style, shape and material is almost as personal a decision as your concealed carry location on your body. I can say that if you know some other folks that carry concealed, get with them and try as many holsters and configurations for your selected mode of carry as possible. Everyone I know that carries concealed on a regular basis has a collection of holsters that they thought would be perfect ... until they wore it for a week or two.
Ryan
Thank you for your response. I use the seatbelt rig for driving only, and just haven't found a more accessible location for myself in the car than that. The armrest compartment between the front seats works, but the way it is back hinged is an impediment for quick removal. It would be perfect if the compartment was hinged on the passenger side and opened towards it.
#48
12-28-2013 | 09:40 PM
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Good points, Ryan. First post on the subject that clear shows knowledge on the subject. As for kydex, it can be very comfortable if a hybrid is used. Here's an inside the waistband example: http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/IW...8/Default.aspx.
As for pulling a weapon while seated in a vehicle, those of us in the military or with previous service, train to fight from vehicles, including ordinary passenger vehicles, but it is clear from much of the discussion that most writers in this thread have not practiced pulling the weapon in various vehicle-related scenarios and have probably never timed their draw. Except those with military service (and not all), fewer still have fired weapons from moving vehicles. I find that disturbing because every week I read about some amateur that does something rediculous and endangers the 2nd Amendment rights of all. Some of the shirt and belly band holsters I would not recommend as they do not offer enough trigger protection to prevent a negligent discharge. There is a solid reason why today's special warfare soldiers and sailors do not take nylon and leather holsters into combat, folks.
I don't recommend ankle carry as your primary means of carrying a pistol anymore than I would recommend putting a pistol in the glovebox (just reaching over for it could be an act of war for the road raging fool on your six and believe me you do want to de-escalate because killing someone in self defense is not as cool as Hollywood makes it). Pocket carry takes to long to draw and it's doubtful an adversary will give you an opportnity to bend over and pull up your pants leg. Pocket carry is a great opportunity to shoot yourself in the ***** and foot when your body is full of adrenaline and your in a fight or flight mode of not thinking. Shoulder holsters also take too long to pull and can snag. Fanny packs and day planners again are too slow on the draw and if you are outside your vehicle at the pump, I can take them away for you without presenting a pistol in your face. If I am the attacker and one of you has any of these slow draw holsters, I've got you. It's not enough to shoot straight on an air conditioned target range in controlled conditions. Almost anyone can do it and get over confident about their fighting capabilities, which is regrettable. The link to the hybrid I do recommend. It is comfortable, heck too comfortable for me as I prefer a straight, thin, tuckable Kydex IWB holster, which I wish they had 32 years ago when I started. Anyone know how long it takes them to draw their pistol out of their holster?
As for pulling a weapon while seated in a vehicle, those of us in the military or with previous service, train to fight from vehicles, including ordinary passenger vehicles, but it is clear from much of the discussion that most writers in this thread have not practiced pulling the weapon in various vehicle-related scenarios and have probably never timed their draw. Except those with military service (and not all), fewer still have fired weapons from moving vehicles. I find that disturbing because every week I read about some amateur that does something rediculous and endangers the 2nd Amendment rights of all. Some of the shirt and belly band holsters I would not recommend as they do not offer enough trigger protection to prevent a negligent discharge. There is a solid reason why today's special warfare soldiers and sailors do not take nylon and leather holsters into combat, folks.
I don't recommend ankle carry as your primary means of carrying a pistol anymore than I would recommend putting a pistol in the glovebox (just reaching over for it could be an act of war for the road raging fool on your six and believe me you do want to de-escalate because killing someone in self defense is not as cool as Hollywood makes it). Pocket carry takes to long to draw and it's doubtful an adversary will give you an opportnity to bend over and pull up your pants leg. Pocket carry is a great opportunity to shoot yourself in the ***** and foot when your body is full of adrenaline and your in a fight or flight mode of not thinking. Shoulder holsters also take too long to pull and can snag. Fanny packs and day planners again are too slow on the draw and if you are outside your vehicle at the pump, I can take them away for you without presenting a pistol in your face. If I am the attacker and one of you has any of these slow draw holsters, I've got you. It's not enough to shoot straight on an air conditioned target range in controlled conditions. Almost anyone can do it and get over confident about their fighting capabilities, which is regrettable. The link to the hybrid I do recommend. It is comfortable, heck too comfortable for me as I prefer a straight, thin, tuckable Kydex IWB holster, which I wish they had 32 years ago when I started. Anyone know how long it takes them to draw their pistol out of their holster?
Last edited by VikingMariner; 12-28-2013 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Dang iPad.
#49
12-28-2013 | 09:56 PM
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Let me re-emphasize clearly for amateur shooters in the hope that it will save someone: If your holster, whatever material, does not fully cover the trigger, it is only a matter of time before you have a negligent discharge of your weapon.
Get a new holster before you carry the weapon anywhere. Your current predicament is like carrying your gun between your but cheeks. You may not shoot yourself today but it's only a matter of time before you will be in the emergency room missing a pound of flesh.
Get a new holster before you carry the weapon anywhere. Your current predicament is like carrying your gun between your but cheeks. You may not shoot yourself today but it's only a matter of time before you will be in the emergency room missing a pound of flesh.
#50
12-28-2013 | 11:05 PM
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using speed to escape is always my first option but sometimes you need a last option, I like under the drivers seat or between the seat and the door sill, and please Porsche owners make sure you buy a classy weapon with some style-no saturday night specials-On a related note, once I was attacked by a pregnant woman holding a baby in NOLA, I opened my door to access my semi auto and the crackhead left, sometimes just having it is enough
#51
12-29-2013 | 02:41 AM
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This has been a fascinating thread for me, since I don't own a gun. It seems to me that there is a world of difference between someone who is a sport shooter and never been in threatening situations and someone who has been trained to react in life threatening experiences. Isn't having a gun on your person or in your car of limited value if you're not trained to handle the car jacking situation. I would think military and police officers act instinctively and decisively, whereas sport shooters and ordinary folks that carry for protection might make their situation worse with a gun.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
#52
12-29-2013 | 06:24 AM
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This has been a fascinating thread for me, since I don't own a gun. It seems to me that there is a world of difference between someone who is a sport shooter and never been in threatening situations and someone who has been trained to react in life threatening experiences. Isn't having a gun on your person or in your car of limited value if you're not trained to handle the car jacking situation. I would think military and police officers act instinctively and decisively, whereas sport shooters and ordinary folks that carry for protection might make their situation worse with a gun.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
I feel really safe in PA. That place is loaded with John Wayne types. Most can shoot pretty fine. The number of illegal discharges is negligible and criminals live in fear. (the only hotspot is Philly)
#53
12-29-2013 | 06:54 AM
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Good points, Ryan. First post on the subject that clear shows knowledge on the subject. As for kydex, it can be very comfortable if a hybrid is used. Here's an inside the waistband example: http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/IW...8/Default.aspx.
Crossbreed does make a good holster, I happen to own a Super Tuck.
Absolutely agree that using your concealed weapon for self defense is the absolute last resort, if you can de-escalate the situation then do-so. Swallow your pride and everyone walks away.
Ryan
#54
12-29-2013 | 07:06 AM
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This has been a fascinating thread for me, since I don't own a gun. It seems to me that there is a world of difference between someone who is a sport shooter and never been in threatening situations and someone who has been trained to react in life threatening experiences. Isn't having a gun on your person or in your car of limited value if you're not trained to handle the car jacking situation. I would think military and police officers act instinctively and decisively, whereas sport shooters and ordinary folks that carry for protection might make their situation worse with a gun.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
But like I said, a fascinating thread to me.
Jeff Cooper who was involved in the founding of the International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC), serving as the first President of IPSC, also wrote some good discussion on situational awareness and self defense - both about avoiding entering the situation and mindset about defusing the situation if you cannot avoid it. He also has an approach to carry and shooting.
For anyone that carries concealed or is considering it, see if there is a book on concealed carry in your state. This one is very good for the state of Florida and is often used as reference during CCW training classes.
Ryan
#55
12-29-2013 | 07:34 AM
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Alan, owning a firearm is a right, one you can choose not to exercise, but I guarantee you if you try it you'll love it. Its like having extra HP or money in the bank, it makes you feel more comfortable more relaxed and more safe. As for making things worse, when people are about to harm you or your family, nothing is going to make things worse, doing something is always better than just standing there waiting for them to decide what happens to you. The same thing you love about a 991 and its design, you'l love about a SIG 226 pistol, or an SCAR 16 rifle, that same attention to detail and precision is in these items, like a rolex or an iPhone
#56
12-29-2013 | 07:38 AM
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Okay folks. That gentleman's feeling are so hurt (amazing since he has not been personally attacked through name calling) he's not going to listen to anything but this link may help in understanding why some leather and nylon holsters are dangerous: http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/fi...al-discharges/.
Last edited by Vantaredoc; 12-29-2013 at 07:44 AM.
#57
12-29-2013 | 07:54 AM
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Wow! There's no no excuse for that! You just can't fix stupid! Here in Florida when it's hot and humid and you are a small framed guy it's hard to carry concealed when you are wearing shorts and a tank top. I always have a Ruger LCP .380 with Buffalo Big Bore +p hollow points in a Bull Dog fanny pak. You can carry it any where and no one knows. .380 with +p rounds are just for carry and Better than nothing!
#58
12-29-2013 | 08:01 AM
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That pistol is not rated for +P if I remember (sorry if my memory fails me). Once saw a pistol blow up in someone's face leaving the gentleman's jaw hanging off. 
He was using a special type of ammo that the pistol was not rated for; just sayin'. Would recommend (with respect) using XTP hallow points for a .380 so you don't over or under penetrate and still get a nice expansion.
When I carry in Miami, a Kydex holster with a sweat guard works fine for me. A criminal is just not going to wait for anyone to unzip the pack, assuming the zipper does not get stuck in a fight or flight situation. An inside the waist band holster might improve your reaction time by two or three times, assuming you practice every week (heck, every month will work), which most people do not.
Really like Ryan's comment: "Avoiding entering the situation and mindset about defusing the situation." Best approach by far.
He was using a special type of ammo that the pistol was not rated for; just sayin'. Would recommend (with respect) using XTP hallow points for a .380 so you don't over or under penetrate and still get a nice expansion. When I carry in Miami, a Kydex holster with a sweat guard works fine for me. A criminal is just not going to wait for anyone to unzip the pack, assuming the zipper does not get stuck in a fight or flight situation. An inside the waist band holster might improve your reaction time by two or three times, assuming you practice every week (heck, every month will work), which most people do not.
Really like Ryan's comment: "Avoiding entering the situation and mindset about defusing the situation." Best approach by far.
Last edited by VikingMariner; 12-29-2013 at 08:06 AM. Reason: I need coffee!
#59
12-29-2013 | 08:11 AM
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That pistol is not rated for +P if I remember (sorry if my memory fails me). Once saw a pistol blow up in someone's face leaving the gentleman's jaw hanging off. He was using a special type of ammo that the pistol was not rated for; just sayin'. Would recommend (with respect) using XTP hallow points for a .380 so you don't over or under penetrate and still get a nice expansion. When I carry in Miami, a Kydex holster with a sweat guard works fine for me. A criminal is just not going to wait for anyone to unzip the pack, assuming the zipper does not get stuck in a fight or flight situation. An inside the waist band holster might involve your reaction time by two or three times, assuming you practice every week (heck, every month will work), which most people do not. Really like Ryan's comment: "Avoiding entering the situation and mindset about defusing the situation." Best approach by far.
He was using a special type of ammo that the pistol was not rated for; just sayin'. Would recommend (with respect) using XTP hallow points for a .380 so you don't over or under penetrate and still get a nice expansion. When I carry in Miami, a Kydex holster with a sweat guard works fine for me. A criminal is just not going to wait for anyone to unzip the pack, assuming the zipper does not get stuck in a fight or flight situation. An inside the waist band holster might involve your reaction time by two or three times, assuming you practice every week (heck, every month will work), which most people do not. Really like Ryan's comment: "Avoiding entering the situation and mindset about defusing the situation." Best approach by far.
#60
12-29-2013 | 08:12 AM
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my favorite quote
This has been an enjoyable read for me. Something different than the usual MT vs PDK, SPASM, PDCC, Burmester debate
I don't own a gun, but I grew up around them (mostly rifles and shotguns). We also use to go to a shooting range that rented handguns and sold ammo, it was a lot of fun. My brother and his wife both carry and he has quite an exotic collection of guns. My wife is adamantly opposed to guns and will NEVER let one in our house. We have two small children and she's read too much propaganda (we live in MA, 'nuff said). She could care less about my car addiction, so I cut my losses on the gun debate, lol.
I'd love to have a CC permit and handgun (I have to travel into some suspect areas at night). I couldn't imagine driving a 911 there any time of the day (I have a business vehicle I use). It seems like times are changing with the income gap widening and criminals are getting bolder. I couldn't imagine what would happen if I was standing in a parking lot loading my family into the car and some crackhead had a gun up to my head
I guess, I'd have to politely show him the key goes on the left side of the steering wheel and tell him to drive safely
Keep packing heat my 911 brothers (and sisters)!
This has been an enjoyable read for me. Something different than the usual MT vs PDK, SPASM, PDCC, Burmester debate
I don't own a gun, but I grew up around them (mostly rifles and shotguns). We also use to go to a shooting range that rented handguns and sold ammo, it was a lot of fun. My brother and his wife both carry and he has quite an exotic collection of guns. My wife is adamantly opposed to guns and will NEVER let one in our house. We have two small children and she's read too much propaganda (we live in MA, 'nuff said). She could care less about my car addiction, so I cut my losses on the gun debate, lol.
I'd love to have a CC permit and handgun (I have to travel into some suspect areas at night). I couldn't imagine driving a 911 there any time of the day (I have a business vehicle I use). It seems like times are changing with the income gap widening and criminals are getting bolder. I couldn't imagine what would happen if I was standing in a parking lot loading my family into the car and some crackhead had a gun up to my head
I guess, I'd have to politely show him the key goes on the left side of the steering wheel and tell him to drive safelyKeep packing heat my 911 brothers (and sisters)!
Last edited by BlackSpeed; 12-29-2013 at 08:16 AM.