Originally Posted by gulrey22

Interesting to know what the dealer would offer as a trade-in value. Would the value be adjusted for the problems they should have be able to fix but have not been able to?

Originally Posted by FrstPorsche

Maybe I missed it in the video's, but what exactly is PCNA threatening you with? Are they saying go ahead and take us to arbitration because you will lose? Have they offered anything in addition to the attempts to have the car fixed yet? I just want to understand the situation more. I see it as this; the car has been in multiple times and has almost had every electronic thing possible replaced. You have been patient in accepting the repaired car built it has continued failing. You have taken the steps to get it lemon lawed because PCNA didn't want to accept this and wished to continue making repairs. You aren't satisfied with this response obviously and want it lemoned. I would do the same and have as mentioned with a previously owned VW. You have your court date and will prob win. I understand the hate for PCNA because they are making it harder and we "feel" they should like us more. Ferrari was the same to my friend and wanted to keep trying to fix the car to his satisfaction. He didn't want this and he won at arbitration. Nobody here knows exactly what PCNA has said or the tone of voice they said it with. I don't understand all the hate for PCNA in this thread. I understand not liking the position they are taking in this case but if Murray's facts are right he will win easy. Move on.

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

The disappointment with PCNA is in the context of dragging it out to court instead of offering a solid settlement (I am assuming here from his video that they are offering well below purchase price and not offering a replacement alternative either). Other manufacturers are much more proactive in putting a solid deal on the table and resolving the issue early to save the relationship. BMW would have offered to replace the car with a new one months ago.

Originally Posted by ma991

I'm no attorney but how about a lawsuit for pain and suffering on top of a brand new car? Screw depreciation for miles used. They should be paying you for driving that piece of ****! How about the value of your time for dealing with all of those issues! Nick - Time to set an example, you got nothing to loose. Make them suffer, the videos are a great start. We are here for you. Porsche, shame on you.

Originally Posted by FrstPorsche

I understand that, but what exactly have they done wrong? They have every right to continue to offer to have the car fixed etc. The owner has the right to arbitration if they disagree. Do we want PCNA to act differently? You bet. My point is they can bargain just like we can. BMW or others "may" have done differently, we don't know. Ferrari didn't. I'm not going to use one persons situation to base my overall feelings of PCNA.

Originally Posted by FrstPorsche

Talking about other cars, I like the looks of the Aston Martin revealed in New York today. Vantage GT. Looks nice and starts at 99k. I think the Mercedes slc gt will look very similar.

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Well from a legal process standpoint they haven't done anything wrong, they are well within their rights to drag this out and let it go to court. The question is this: is it reasonable to expect better customer service from Porsche than say from GM or KIA? I would say a luxury brand's customers should expect a higher standard than doing the minimum acceptable within the law. So while Porsche isn't doing anything wrong, they are showcasing that their customer service standards are no better than a GM and well below what one might expect from BMW or Mercedes Benz. They are devaluing their brand here - they are saying they care more about a few bucks than their reputation.

Originally Posted by JohnM

No, Sir. You misunderstood my motivations!

I did not cancel an order because of a Lemon. Lemons happen and are almost random. You put enough cars together, they will occur at a certain rate. It is NOT necessarily indicative of the overall vehicle quality. (although it may become statistically significant if incidence becomes high enough)

What I did cancel my order for, was PCNA's response and actions to this event. In great contrast to the above scenario, this is actually 100% indicative of how Porsche view customers. This is very significant. It shows you where your place is. And that place is in the toilet.

If I do a procedure on a patient and the results don't satisfy the patient, they will confront me. That is a significant thing in and of itself... but of real significance is HOW I handle the issue. No matter what happens, every one of them feels appreciated, and valued. I resolve it immediately, no matter what the cost to me or my business. And I don't make $25,000 on each of them.

Also for consideration; Has there ever been a better and more justifiable case than Nick's? He is a Porsche lover. And he is erudite, well spoken, reasonable and patient. He is a asset to Porsche. There should be no suspicion of his motives. If he were a 20 Y/O street racer from the Bronx, and had all sorts of Mods on his car, then....Ok, I see a reason to investigate for months. But, the car is a Lemon. 2 weeks after they contacted him, they need to determine how to handle this. Within the month, he should be satisfied. The End.

So in a nutshell, it is PCNA that is the problem here. Not their product.

And as an aside story: I once had an issue with a Patek wristwatch. Basically a lemon. It was sent back to Henry Stern watch agency as well as Patek in Europe. After 2 years, and 5 tries to fix it, I finally called and spoke to management. They were hostile, arrogant and rude. When I asked what thought they had concerning the numerous failures of this timepiece, they responded, "perhaps you are not the sort of buyer that Patek Philippe wants".... Boom! I returned the watch to the dealer for a full refund and never looked at them again. If the customer is not appreciated, what does that say?

Originally Posted by ChuckJ

The reason we have lemon laws is because most companies aren't equipped to deal with this situation without a law making them do it. Lemon laws protect the seller also by providing clear parameters for what buyers and sellers should expect after buying a car. My experience with the lemon law was good, and they tried the same tactics with me. I just looked at it like it was just business. It was a pain waiting and not knowing, but in the end I thought it was a fair and relatively easy process. And having gone through it, I'm surprised that they didn't negotiate sooner; they just don't have it in them. Having said that, since this was the 2nd Honda that had let me down, they would never get my business again anyway. I'm confident that Nick will get resolution within days and then he can make his decision as to a new car.

ChuckJ