One big one. The 991 is gorgeous. The 981 is the ugliest Porsche since the 996.

IMHO.

 

I am not arguing with this quote, but would really appreciate an authoritative citation(s), online or in print, that I can look up. My students are expected give citations when presenting specific "factual" information in essays, as are my colleagues and I in technical publications. It gives the reader confidence in the information and also makes it possible to look up additional details.


A truly definitive comparison would include same driver, or clearly demonstrated same level of driving skill, same "go-fast" equipment, and essentially the same road conditions.

 

See entries #95 and #127

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

The Nordschleife is Nurburgring (north loop). Link to Hockenheim short is on the same page. Hockenheim is more of a power track. Far less corners and mainly point and shoot. #90 and #104.

 

Please forgive me if I should know this. Is Dag Johnson known to be comparable in driving skill to Walter Rohl?


Do we know that the optional equipment that might affect lap time, PDk, Sport Chrono, PASM etc., was the same on both cars?


The truly definitive comparison would be similar to the recent EVO M4 vs. 991 comparison test where as many differences were eliminated as possible. Maybe one will eventually be published.


I appreciate Steve's patience, I am not trying to be picky, but really am curious.


Actually, for practical purposes, any performance difference between a base 991 and 981S is not important to me. Both are well above the level I would be able to use, due both to the limits of my driving skill and my expected driving conditions. I am currently driving a base 991, it was almost a 981S instead, and might well be next time around. Cost, esthetics, perhaps the available AWD option for winter use, and the ability to transport bulky items in the back seat, will probably be the determining factors, not all out performance.

 

Walter Rohr is 67. Legend for sure, but with age comes slower lap times (eventually). BL is the rear engine 991 isn't going to beat a mid engine Porsche wearing the same motor. Even with Porsche's attempt to detune it. Somebody posted a lap of the 991 base around the ring. It wasn't the most composed lap I've seen. Seemed to amuse the driver. Can't wait to see the GTS time. I'm hoping it will best the 997.2 S even though the deck was really stacked on that car (PCCB, PDK, Sport Chrono Plus, and Michelin Cup tires).

It took me years to come around and finally realize the mid engine Porsches are the most fun to drive. Definitely confidence inspiring, especially in the corners. They're also more visceral with the motor a mere 18 inches behind you. But 997s and 991s are hard to beat aesthetically. They are better looking than my 981, especially from the rear view. But the GTS is another story. Porsche got the rear right on that car, and the front end. My only complaint on the 981 styling is that Porsche squared off the fenders. And I'm not a big fan of the taillights and spoiler either. The 987 Cayman is a better looking car from the rear than the 981 (less GTS).

 

Just noticed we are comparing a model year 2011 911 base with a Cayman model 2013. Not quite a like to like comparison, is it? I still think 991 base is as much of a car as the Cayman S and then some!

 

Ah Steve is up to his old trick again (or was it on rennlist ?). Dissing the C2 performance on the basis of false info. It doesn't do 8:02 on the ring but 7:44, video documented by Dag !

Could you please stick to the fact for once ? Because like this, it is bordering on trolling. Good for you that you love your 981S, it's a great car. But the OP was not interested in a Cayman. You bring nothing to the table but false info !

 

The OP asked whether the Cayman S drives better. I took that as an open invitation since it does in fact. Read it again. Did he not express he didn't need rear seats too?

Nonetheless I'm SO happy to prove you wrong!! The 7:44 lap was a factory modified base 991 with PDCC (not offered on the base 991) and front 997 GT3 brake calipers and 350mm turbo rear discs. Found the dialogue from Dag Johnsen himself. He states his official lap of 8:02.5 is the "reference", but still wants to push to break 8 minutes. AND the 7:44 he performed wasn't the whole lap by Sport Auto standards. It's the lap mere mortals pay to drive, but the Sport Auto standard lap is where the nordschleife meets the newer F1 ring, and it's a complete lap with zero gap.

Since you guys have to have proof, here you go... (you need to view through Youtube to see Dag's dialogue about the lap, and his modified base 991)



Get your facts straight before you accuse people of things.

 

It gets old having to educate all the time, but if you knew anything about the German car market, you'd know Porsche introduces their cars to their market a year earlier than here. So the '11 Carrera base is in fact the 991. Just like the '13 Cayman S is the 981.

As long as Porsche keeps the current formula of sharing the motor between the Carrera base and a Cayman S, you're going to get the same result. Sorry some of you guys can't handle reality. I would think economics drove that decision. Why make a 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8. Really doesn't make sense to do that. So if you need rear seats for midgets, get the Carrera. Otherwise it's a no brainer.

I don't design or build these cars and what you decide to purchase is your business. But at least I can tell the difference in how something drives and I prioritize handling and cornering high enough to make the choice I made. What I offer to the OP is to at least consider the Cayman GTS. He would be buying the best performing new Porsche in that price range, not to mention pride in owning something only few will. It's a legitimate recommendation.

 

I think a base is great, has the majority of what anyone, the is comparison of the 991 base s M4 which we all know has more power and is very cable indeed, the result is interesting and speaks for itself.




thanks.

 

More Data: MT Sport Chrono vs. MT Sport Chrono. No information that I can understand at least on other equipment. Too Close to call.

Just to add the confusion. MT Boxster S with suspension options vs. MT base 991 without options.

 

You are right about the Dag Johnsen time. Serves me right for shooting my mouth of and I stand corrected (gave myself 15 minutes timeout facing a corner of the room with red cheecks). (http://rennlist.com/forums/991/75444...-44-btg-3.html)

Don't know about the other stuff you claim, haven't checked that.

BUT I still love my C2 to death and will defend it vigorously ...

 

I had a 987S before my 991. It never grew on me. I just fell in love with the 991, not so with the 981. So indeed, no brainer, for me 991 all the way. Never ever regretted the move. Now I have the car that I dreamed about when I was young, the car on the posters in my room. Buying the 981, even in GTS guise would have been a huge mistake for me as it would leave me pining for the sheer beauty of the 911 !

 

This.

Also, surely there has to be an official time for an unmodified normal Porsche 991 C2 around the 'ring to do a true comparison.

I did the Porsche Roadshow a few years ago at Calabogie Motorsports Park. There were a handful of 997.2s, a 987.2 and a Panamera Turbo to try out around the track. Let me tell, nobody was fighting over the 987. Everyone wanted the 911s. They felt way better.

 

Did you not see post #38. That's the official lap, as documented as you please. It's a German spec 2011 991 in all its glory in the first year of production, and delivered a lap time of 8:02.5. That is the official lap. The driver thinks if he pushed beyond what he called "safe limits" he might have been able to break 8 minutes.

People want power. It's plain and simple. You didn't say whether the 987.2 is a Cayman or Boxster, base or S, so impossible to comment. Either way, the 997.2 S is a faster car even though it doesn't corner as well. I have thousands of miles in both the 987S and 997.2S and my 987S can enter corners faster and carry greater corner speed with much more confidence. I could easily make it as fast as a 997S but don't care to.