New Information on upcoming 991 Facelift
#63
11-07-2014 | 10:59 AM
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Before the 991's came out, there were rumors that the TT/TTS was going to have 3 turbos (to further reduce lag). So maybe that is on the docket with the 991.2.
Irrespective, I don't think turbos in and of themselves must be a negative. I view them only as technologies which haven't been perfected yet... and I believe that Porsche will perfect it, if not in the 991.2 then not far after.
Just like it took a while for automatic gearboxes to evolve to a level that would satisfy enthusiasts (at least some of us!), the turbo technology just needs to get a little better -- notably, in soundtrack and pedal response. Once that is achieved (it's a question of when, not if) then I don't see any reason why folks should categorically dismiss turbos any more than they do water-cooleds, PDK's, etc.
Irrespective, I don't think turbos in and of themselves must be a negative. I view them only as technologies which haven't been perfected yet... and I believe that Porsche will perfect it, if not in the 991.2 then not far after.
Just like it took a while for automatic gearboxes to evolve to a level that would satisfy enthusiasts (at least some of us!), the turbo technology just needs to get a little better -- notably, in soundtrack and pedal response. Once that is achieved (it's a question of when, not if) then I don't see any reason why folks should categorically dismiss turbos any more than they do water-cooleds, PDK's, etc.
Last edited by KonaKai; 11-07-2014 at 11:01 AM.
#64
11-07-2014 | 11:14 AM
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This is a very interesting discussion for someone that is contemplating buying a 911. This discussion reminds me of the M3 crowd that has always had people highlighting that the v8 didn't have enough torque down low. Those were very often the same people that babied the car and didn't even dare taking it up to redline...if they even know that it has a redline over 8k. At the end of the day it is important that cars are driven according to their driving dynamics. And now that Porsche is going turbo across all 911 I will definitely not sell my e92 M3. Heck I may have to check out the last V8 Vantage.
The new stuff can wait a bot for me, and I will be fine being .5 seconds slower to the next stoplight....I kid I kid.
The new stuff can wait a bot for me, and I will be fine being .5 seconds slower to the next stoplight....I kid I kid.
#65
11-07-2014 | 11:30 PM
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Not sure how much your gf paid for the 991 S but if you want to be fast save up and get the turbo s. You'll be able to take 98% of the sports cars you come across. I would venture to believe that all 911 owners can afford a corvette, however, not all corvette owners can afford a 911. It is what it is. Let them have their 0-60 times. As long as you have that car that makes you smile day in and day out I would be content. Not everyone can afford to own a 70k car much less a 6 digit car like a Porsche. Let's not forgot how fortunate we are.
I learned long ago you can't have a rational discussion with some of these guys that are obsessed with published HP values. There is a lot more that goes into speed than a hp curve (hp/wt ratios, gearing etc), but it really is a waste of time to even try. I can agree with some of the quality issues a few folks have experienced for dissatisfaction but performance wise it makes me laugh.
I'm hard pressed to need more than a 4.0 sec (which is conservative published value. ) 0-60 car that can go 189 mph. Certainly not about to go with a GM box to chase it..
#66
11-07-2014 | 11:41 PM
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Did you actually test drive the car before you bought it???? if you did and bought it then you are an idiot. If you didn't test drive it and are dissatisfied you are also an idiot. Please go get a vette or whatever and then whine about that car in those forums..
But my specs for a C2 (PDK) is 4.4 and for a C2S is 4.1... And in general I believe most of the road tests showed the C2S to be 3.9..
My physics tells me it would be pretty hard to do 3.9 secs without having a fair amount of torque..
#67
11-09-2014 | 06:50 AM
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Me personally, I'd never buy a GM car. I'd prefer to shell out 120k for a GTS or a panny turbo.
#68
11-09-2014 | 07:01 AM
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I have watched this thread and held my tongue for awhile, but need to chime in now. I have a 991 base C2 PDK and drive it to work everyday on a 40 mile loop combined of freeway, twisty back roads, and long straights (yes, I am lucky 
). The car DOES need more power. This is my #1 complaint with this car. It needs more torque on the freeway when driving in traffic when you need to accelerate quickly to merge, it needs more torque and HP on straights when you want to overtake another vehicle safely, it needs more HP when accelerating out of corners. Truthfully, I do not understand why people think that it has enough power. I have ridden 1000cc sport bikes the better part of my life, so I know what can be done safely with more power. More power can add a better experience while driving. I want both exceptional handling and the rush of speed. Why can't we get this in a $100k Porsche? I am actually looking forward to the new turbo variations. And yes, I could spend $200k on a turbo S, but an additional $100k for more power is hard for me to justify.
). The car DOES need more power. This is my #1 complaint with this car. It needs more torque on the freeway when driving in traffic when you need to accelerate quickly to merge, it needs more torque and HP on straights when you want to overtake another vehicle safely, it needs more HP when accelerating out of corners. Truthfully, I do not understand why people think that it has enough power. I have ridden 1000cc sport bikes the better part of my life, so I know what can be done safely with more power. More power can add a better experience while driving. I want both exceptional handling and the rush of speed. Why can't we get this in a $100k Porsche? I am actually looking forward to the new turbo variations. And yes, I could spend $200k on a turbo S, but an additional $100k for more power is hard for me to justify.
#69
11-09-2014 | 07:14 AM
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It seems to be in line with their current product strategy. They have both a Macan and Macan turbo and the truth is that they both have turbo engines. The same now for the Panamera: the v8 Panamera S has been replaced with a turbo v6.
Not a bad thing for speed. If they can make the exhaust note sound like the 991 turbo's Jet engine whoosh sound, I don't mind. The Macan turbo I test drove at an autocross yesterday was peppy, but had nothing on the Panamera GTS' naturally aspirated exhaust note. Otherwise felt fast for a car it's size and weight.
If they sell a Carrera with a turbo engine that I can eventually tune for more HP, I'm in.
Not a bad thing for speed. If they can make the exhaust note sound like the 991 turbo's Jet engine whoosh sound, I don't mind. The Macan turbo I test drove at an autocross yesterday was peppy, but had nothing on the Panamera GTS' naturally aspirated exhaust note. Otherwise felt fast for a car it's size and weight.
If they sell a Carrera with a turbo engine that I can eventually tune for more HP, I'm in.
#70
11-09-2014 | 07:54 AM
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Why are members discussing the turbos as if it is a done deal that the new 911s will have them across the entire model range? The list of lap times on prior pages list the na c2s completing the lap faster than the turbo 911, that seems counter intuitive.
Last edited by wanderfalke; 11-09-2014 at 07:59 AM.
#71
11-09-2014 | 07:56 AM
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And now the cayenne gts has gone twin turbo too.
#72
11-09-2014 | 03:37 PM
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Well said..
#73
11-09-2014 | 06:20 PM
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That would kill resale on the current models and would **** everyone off. The power increases will be gradual.
#74
11-09-2014 | 08:12 PM
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Caps I was being sarcastic. I get the tiered pricing Porsche has created for each of their models to live in. I have stayed out of the conversation for the most part because nothing is confirmed. I am very happy with the Turbo I just bought, understand you have to pay to play and not all that worried about the resale.
Edit:
Looks like Porsche is doing just fine with the 911
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-91...55701/+pgeorge
Edit:
Looks like Porsche is doing just fine with the 911
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-91...55701/+pgeorge
Last edited by tommyboy214; 11-10-2014 at 10:47 AM.
#75
11-10-2014 | 08:03 AM
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I thought half the 928 engine would be a great thing when they talked about the counterbalance shaft, and bought one. I had a 928 at the time and I guarantee you the vibration difference was significant (both 1st and 2nd order). I hated the 944 from the day I bought it and couldn't wait to get rid of it. I will think very hard before buying another 4 cylinder Porsche! Conversely, if they do change to 4 cylinder 911s, our naturally aspirated 6 cylinder 911s value should hold better.
ChuckJ
ChuckJ