You must drive a completely differente 991 C2 PDK than I do. It can loose 50hp and still be quick enough !

It baffles me that on roads with speed limits of 70mph you are not able to merge or overtake with this car. I can do that safely with a mere 150bhp and maybe even less!

I had my car on the AutoBahn recently. And in these real world conditions with real world drivers, our group (consisting of 996 gt2 550bhp, 991c2, 993, 996, 987 boxster non-s, 944 turbo) stayed together. The GT2 didn't get away from us although he got a pull to 300kph at one time until he had to back off for traffic. Pace was very high !
So in all honesty, I question the perspective the hp junkies have that say the C2 is a slouch and lacks power.

 

The OP's topic is "Facelift" although it is clear that he meant the various changes on the next version of the 991.

The many posts about hp are interesting and informative. The power discussions are subjective, despite road test 0-60 times that are close to objective. I found the discussions about the 991 C2S resonant. The C2S and C4S have all the power I could reasonably want either on the road or track, but I went for a '15 991 Turbo S coupe because I do not want to have to be at the peak of the power curve in everyday driving to access the power of the C2S and C4S. That is especially true if I had the Sports Exhaust on either of them. By the time I added the power kit to my C4S build I was in TT price territory, so the decision to go for the TTS was easy. Do we overpay for the Turbo or Turbo S? Maybe, but they are in another dimension from all but perhaps the 991 GT3. Nice to teleport from 40 to 65 in a second.

There was a comment on the evolution of Porsche turbo charging that suggested that the current version on the TT or TTS needs to improve. Without question, Porsche will improve upon the sequential turbo charging in the next TT and TTS, but I am delighted with how it works now. I find that throttle response is quite good and have yet to experience lag. if one wants different sounds from the TT or TTS they can fit various aftermarket exhaust systems, but for me the stock system is satisfying without being intrusive, although there is a bit of drone within about 200 rpm of 2000. I gather that the Europipe reduces the drone so will consider it.

As to the comment that the $200,000 TTS looks like an $88,000 991, I have no big objection. In fact, I think that the 991 C2 an C4 look better than the 991 TT or TTS. I think that is the point of the 911 concept. The 458, Huracan or 650S are entirely different concepts to me and the 913 will address that concept, hopefully with an inspiring front end, unlike the photo shopped 913 in the article.

 

No clue what C2 you are driving but I suggest you get it looked at for some kind of engine problem.. 4.4 sec 0 to 60 published (I believe the base in track tests is a bit faster than that) is faster than turbos of a few years ago. So if 4.4 sec is dog slow and can't get up to speed and around that Prius on the freeway then well I guess you really should go for the Turbo S...

My DD is a C2S, but have spent a fair amount of time driving a Base C2 recently as well and the only real torque problem I've seen with either the C2 or C2S is when you are afraid to use the throttle.. Push it to the floor and getting on the freeway you are 0 to 100 very quickly.. almost too quickly given how smooth the car is as I usually have difficult perceiving that I am already going 105 when there is minimal traffic and I don't have a reference..

Also high speed acceleration when driving say 75 or 80 and then going to 100 is very quick.. And this is going up a fairly steep grade on a local tollway I drive.

 

I totally agree with you. Unless you are on a drag strip, the super cars with 550 plus hp don't hold up driving on a track. Sure, they are faster on straights, but they would need a jet engine to make up the time they lose in the corners. Now, let's talk about DD. We are on roads with inexperienced drivers, elderly drivers & distracted drivers, how damn fast should we be driving on the roads? If one can't merge or safely pass on the road with a C2 of any configuration, I have a suggestion - attend driving school.

<CPLRUDictionaryNode: 0x16d039a0>

 

You make a good point about public roads, but the reviews of the C2 state that you have to keep the revs high to get good useful torque. With PDK that's an easy solution but the C2 is certainly not in m4 territory when it comes to acceleration.

 

I am not sure that I agree with your statement. I don't have access to any data besides that which is published. If my math is correct the M4 will reach 60mph about 22 ft sooner than the C2, using 3.9 & 4.4 respectively. The 22 feet will be made up by the C2 in .5 seconds. That seems to be in the "territory". I think we all get caught up in the industry hype. Again, unless you are on a drag strip it is a meaningless difference in the world of DD or track environment. A thought - if we changed our spending habits and dedicated more resources to learning how to drive, these small 0-60 differences would not even be discussed. For example, a few weeks ago I was running against an R8. I believe he was published to be a bit slower than me. I also have a performance exhaust, so I believe I was faster. This seemed to confirmed in the straights. In spite of my being faster, I could not stay with him. Why, he is a better driver. Unless we are talking about professionals, I will take skill over HP anytime.

Frank C.

 

And don't forget Frank, Porsche says it's 4.2 seconds to 60 with SC.

ChuckJ

 

The only debate is price. If you want faster, Porsche makes it. I personally am willing to give up a little speed to have a high reving non turbo motor but if you want one, your Turbo S or 918 is waiting.

 

Hey Scatkins, I am glad you are happy with your car and I got a good laugh from your comment that you feel it accelerates "almost too quickly". According to you, I am just afraid to push the throttle. A few days ago it was assumed I didn't know how to downshift. LOL, you guys crack me up. The fact is, I feel it needs more power for what it is. Do I like my car? yes. Did I test drive it before I purchased it? yes. Do I think it needs more power? Absolutely. After driving it for over a year and putting over 20k miles on the odometer, I feel the power is the weakest link and something I think about on a daily basis. Conversely, my previous 996TT was just the opposite. Trust me, while the 991 C2 handles much better and is a better all around vehicle, it is not even close to being as fast as a 2001 996TT.

 

Yeah, almost certainly it must be everyone else....

You bought a car that from the get go and when test driving that you were dissatisfied with performance wise...

You compare it to a 996 turbo that was if I recall about 3.6 or 3.8 0-60 mph car, which is ... no duh .. Faster than a base 991..Then again you knew it because you test drove it..

Could have gotten something with a little more power (a c2s) which would be comparable but just slightly slower than your 996tt... but didn't..

Could have gotten a 991tt which, performance wise is probably the car you should be comparing to...

Interesting purchase decision and thought process... That I find in your words... Hilarious....

But to each his own...

 

Well with all this being said, no car is perfect. They all have a flaw of some kind.

 

Please define what not being "close" means. The 2001 996TT is 0-60 in 3.8 with a 12.1 quarter. The 2013 base C2PDK SC is 4.2 & 12.7. Given the TT is a completely different engine configuration, it seems that the lowest level 991 is pretty close to "as fast" as the 2001 996TT.

 

Yeah that was kinda my point..

I think what ends up happening is that all we want (in some cases apparently expect) the performance of the higher end models (i.e. TT's or TTS) but we only want (or can afford) to pay for the base.

Is the base 991 overpriced for what you get in terms of performance? That's always a subjective discussion. Maybe compared to a vette for example or even a Jag it might seem so and those might be better or more economical (given the cost of a TTS) choice if raw power is your most important criteria..

For others, a base or S 991 is more than enough car to get yourself in trouble.. For me and only street use it most certainly is, but of course that is always subjective argument.

 

I drove a Carerra S with PDK a number of times while my former 997 TT was in for service and the LC was amazing even with the 350 HP version. So, the 991 Carerra S must be very quick.

What really surprised me is seeing a YouTube comparison of the C7 Vette and the 991 Carerra S. The Vette beat it in acceleration but not in stopping. I would think the S would be faster in all aspects vs a $55K Corvette.

 

You went from one of the highest-rated models of the 996, to the basest of base cars for the 991. What were you expecting?

It only goes so far when you make statements like, "yes, I test drove the car." If so, then how the heck did you convince yourself that the base 911 would appeal to your need for insane straight-line speed?