993 Turbo or MB Black Series?
#32
12-22-2009, 12:14 PM
I don't agree, but I have been tracking and racing 911 turbos for years, so I am biased. I have also been into Ruf Turbos as of late, so the comparison becomes even more confused. I just think that the Merc, although it drives well, is not even in the same league as a well prepared 993 TT at the track.
However, I doubt you've driven a CLK63 BS. Stock for stock it will be faster with the same driver. It is far more track accomplished and far easier to drive than the porsche. It has a better power to weight, way better throttle response, better turn in and better high speed stability. Porsche gets the nod for better brakes, but the BS can put the power down sooner in spite of the all wheel drive. The best set up stock turbo on R tires with M030's suspension turn 1:34 at Willow Springs. I've seen stock BS run 1:33.s.
It was designed to compete with Gt3's which it does very well.
Jimmy[/quote]
I just saw this thread, and i am thinking of buying a black series. 1.33 at willow springs seems very unlikley. Is that in the corvette z06 range or nissan gtr range, or 997 turbo. Please let me know
thx
[/QUOTE]
#35
12-22-2009, 10:06 PM
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OK, I've raced tt also (since 87) and did the some of the development for Andial. I held the class record at POC for 10 years in a turbo. I have a very potent 3.8tt (630 hp) and there is no question a modifed 3tt is formidable so for me to make the statements I have it's based on first hand experience not what somebody told me or I read.
However, I doubt you've driven a CLK63 BS. Stock for stock it will be faster with the same driver. It is far more track accomplished and far easier to drive than the porsche. It has a better power to weight, way better throttle response, better turn in and better high speed stability. Porsche gets the nod for better brakes, but the BS can put the power down sooner in spite of the all wheel drive. The best set up stock turbo on R tires with M030's suspension turn 1:34 at Willow Springs. I've seen stock BS run 1:33.s.
It was designed to compete with Gt3's which it does very well.
Jimmy
However, I doubt you've driven a CLK63 BS. Stock for stock it will be faster with the same driver. It is far more track accomplished and far easier to drive than the porsche. It has a better power to weight, way better throttle response, better turn in and better high speed stability. Porsche gets the nod for better brakes, but the BS can put the power down sooner in spite of the all wheel drive. The best set up stock turbo on R tires with M030's suspension turn 1:34 at Willow Springs. I've seen stock BS run 1:33.s.
It was designed to compete with Gt3's which it does very well.
Jimmy
thx[/QUOTE]
Well driven Zo6's are in the low 1:32's which is close to the times of GT-Rs.
The stock 997 turbo.1 are very softly sprung and seem to be around 1:36's.
I've gone head to head with several GT3's and the times are in the 1:34.s
The Viper ACR's are below 1:30's!
What is overlooked is the fact that the BS has a seam welded and trianguled chassis with fully adjustable KW suspension. It shines in the high speed sweepers where the Porsche's are white knuckle rides.
I don't blame you for being skeptical more than one porsche and viper driver has come up to me after a session and remark how impressed they are with the BS. BTW, there are several accounts of 1:32's by pro drivers on MBWorld.org.
#36
12-23-2009, 03:10 PM
The stock 997 turbo.1 are very softly sprung and seem to be around 1:36's.
I've gone head to head with several GT3's and the times are in the 1:34.s
The Viper ACR's are below 1:30's!
What is overlooked is the fact that the BS has a seam welded and trianguled chassis with fully adjustable KW suspension. It shines in the high speed sweepers where the Porsche's are white knuckle rides.
I don't blame you for being skeptical more than one porsche and viper driver has come up to me after a session and remark how impressed they are with the BS. BTW, there are several accounts of 1:32's by pro drivers on MBWorld.org.[/quote]
You are making it so hard to walk away from the blk series. The fastest o i got woth my m6 is 1.38 at willow. If i could only find the right price. Thank you for the information. I did not know how special this car really is.
#37
12-23-2009, 07:40 PM
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You are making it so hard to walk away from the blk series. The fastest o i got woth my m6 is 1.38 at willow. If i could only find the right price. Thank you for the information. I did not know how special this car really is.[/QUOTE]
I forgot to mention that you won't loose your warrantee if you track the car.
Jimmy
I forgot to mention that you won't loose your warrantee if you track the car.
Jimmy
#41
07-09-2010, 08:12 AM
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imho, from purely an investment standpoint 993tt > clk bs. Proof in the puddin' is that the 993tt keeps appreciating whereas BS prices keep falling. both are REMARKABLE cars. and, naturally, there are a host of other reasons for buying a car other than return on investment.
either way, post up what you ended up deciding on!
either way, post up what you ended up deciding on!
#42
07-09-2010, 10:52 AM
yucky 7speed in clkblack
I don't like the 7 speed auto. To be honest they aren't that bad and are leaps above the old 5 speed but after driving the PDK there is just no comparison.
I'd vote for the 993 ... just classic. I remember buying my 997.2 turbo and then seeing the thread about kevin's 993 ruf and was drooling.
I'd vote for the 993 ... just classic. I remember buying my 997.2 turbo and then seeing the thread about kevin's 993 ruf and was drooling.
#44
08-01-2010, 08:18 PM
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The CLK may be safer....and cheaper to run.
The 993 is way more classic....probably more involving to drive...if you like that, perhaps more fun....but far more flawed.
Me, I like 911's... had a 993. I loved that car...should have kept it. Slower than any of these (it was N/A)...but it was fun.
Jeff
The 993 is way more classic....probably more involving to drive...if you like that, perhaps more fun....but far more flawed.
Me, I like 911's... had a 993. I loved that car...should have kept it. Slower than any of these (it was N/A)...but it was fun.
Jeff
Last edited by jcb-memphis; 08-01-2010 at 08:21 PM.
