Can I tighten wastegate for more boost?
#16
10-20-2007, 08:02 AM
I first learned about the lean up top due to the horrible off the shelf programming by putting my car on the dyno. This is why an AFR gauge is a must. I needed to put a colder plug(makes car runs richer) as well as the 5 bar when I put the boost controller in. The whole idea is to stay in safe AFRs. My secret which I will pass on to you guys now is that I put a kenne bell boost a pump in my car which has a **** to overdrive the voltage of the stock fuel pump. This was my ticket to run boost over 1.7 bar on the gt28 hybrids. My car stayed at a steady 12.1 afr with these plugs. 1.7 bar and the boost a pump. I also put down a load of power. PS these mods were done post my 686rhp graph. So I assume I was making around 700rwhp with the set up maxed. You have plenty of injector. The problem at this point ends up being the pump. GL
Suman
PS these gt700 kits are exactly that 700hp. GIAC programming doesn't really give you the gt750 power that it claims(with TB upgrade or with out). I guarantee with out any of these mods you guys wont even gain 15rwhp between the pump and race files at peak. Maybe gain about 20rwhp in the mid range but thats it. You have to up the boost and richen the mixture to make any real power.
Gentlemen! 5 bar and colder plugs in a must! AFR gauge or a dyno with AFR access is also a must when fine tuning the boost control. Also set the boost controller to come on with full load. You should have a spool adjustment on your controller. This will reduce lag tremendously and your car will be a nightmare on the road!
S
Suman
PS these gt700 kits are exactly that 700hp. GIAC programming doesn't really give you the gt750 power that it claims(with TB upgrade or with out). I guarantee with out any of these mods you guys wont even gain 15rwhp between the pump and race files at peak. Maybe gain about 20rwhp in the mid range but thats it. You have to up the boost and richen the mixture to make any real power.
Gentlemen! 5 bar and colder plugs in a must! AFR gauge or a dyno with AFR access is also a must when fine tuning the boost control. Also set the boost controller to come on with full load. You should have a spool adjustment on your controller. This will reduce lag tremendously and your car will be a nightmare on the road!
S
Last edited by Highhats; 10-20-2007 at 08:12 AM.
#17
10-20-2007, 09:30 AM
Todd K gave me a thirty minute lecture on boost controllers when we were eating out in Houston. I wish I could tell you exactly what he said; however in brief summation, you must be able to write a program for the boost controller to work correctly. Everytime you change the boost, fuel type, weather etc, the DME must be able to compensate for all the changes and if not program correctly you will encounter problems. I think you can just write him a short email and he could give you a better response or maybe he could write a quick response here?
#18
10-20-2007, 10:48 AM
Every OTS program has the abilty to change for issue changes such as more air etc.(by dumping more fuel wtc.) If there was no leeway you would not be able to drive OTS programs all over the US, low or high altitude. I have tested this theory so I KNOW it works. nerdhotrod can u chime in please.
S
S
#20
10-20-2007, 01:19 PM
Todd K gave me a thirty minute lecture on boost controllers when we were eating out in Houston. I wish I could tell you exactly what he said; however in brief summation, you must be able to write a program for the boost controller to work correctly. Everytime you change the boost, fuel type, weather etc, the DME must be able to compensate for all the changes and if not program correctly you will encounter problems. I think you can just write him a short email and he could give you a better response or maybe he could write a quick response here?
Every OTS program has the abilty to change for issue changes such as more air etc.(by dumping more fuel wtc.) If there was no leeway you would not be able to drive OTS programs all over the US, low or high altitude. I have tested this theory so I KNOW it works. nerdhotrod can u chime in please.
S
S
Im most cases the me7.8 is actually the most adaptable ecu I have tuned in the me7 family. For example, in an audi me7.1 ecu if boost is more then a psi or so above what the ecu is expacting to see...the ecu will shut the throttle plate nearly instantly. In the porsche me7.8 ecu the amount of deviation from what the ecu wants to see and what it will let "fly" is far greater.
In respect to fueling. The me7.8 ecu has a very sophisticated requested lambda routine. If a tuner set this system up correctly and requested load/torque are correct in the ecu, even fairly large changes in air flow (more boost) can be fueled safely by the ecu.
Keep in mind the less the ecu has to correct/adapt for external changes such as boost controlers and such, the better and safer the car will run, but some testing and tweaking on a dyno can net significant gains.
#21
10-20-2007, 02:05 PM
- chuck
#22
10-20-2007, 06:30 PM
I first learned about the lean up top due to the horrible off the shelf programming by putting my car on the dyno. This is why an AFR gauge is a must. I needed to put a colder plug(makes car runs richer) as well as the 5 bar when I put the boost controller in. The whole idea is to stay in safe AFRs. My secret which I will pass on to you guys now is that I put a kenne bell boost a pump in my car which has a **** to overdrive the voltage of the stock fuel pump. This was my ticket to run boost over 1.7 bar on the gt28 hybrids. My car stayed at a steady 12.1 afr with these plugs. 1.7 bar and the boost a pump. I also put down a load of power. PS these mods were done post my 686rhp graph. So I assume I was making around 700rwhp with the set up maxed. You have plenty of injector. The problem at this point ends up being the pump. GL
Suman
PS these gt700 kits are exactly that 700hp. GIAC programming doesn't really give you the gt750 power that it claims(with TB upgrade or with out). I guarantee with out any of these mods you guys wont even gain 15rwhp between the pump and race files at peak. Maybe gain about 20rwhp in the mid range but thats it. You have to up the boost and richen the mixture to make any real power.
Gentlemen! 5 bar and colder plugs in a must! AFR gauge or a dyno with AFR access is also a must when fine tuning the boost control. Also set the boost controller to come on with full load. You should have a spool adjustment on your controller. This will reduce lag tremendously and your car will be a nightmare on the road!
S
Suman
PS these gt700 kits are exactly that 700hp. GIAC programming doesn't really give you the gt750 power that it claims(with TB upgrade or with out). I guarantee with out any of these mods you guys wont even gain 15rwhp between the pump and race files at peak. Maybe gain about 20rwhp in the mid range but thats it. You have to up the boost and richen the mixture to make any real power.
Gentlemen! 5 bar and colder plugs in a must! AFR gauge or a dyno with AFR access is also a must when fine tuning the boost control. Also set the boost controller to come on with full load. You should have a spool adjustment on your controller. This will reduce lag tremendously and your car will be a nightmare on the road!
S
Mike
#24
10-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Suman. Thanks for posting this information. It's good to get some insight from someone who's been there. When I get around to an engine build, I would really like to pump up the power a bit, without having to go to the GT30's. I will be exploring your suggestions further over the winter.
Mike
Mike
definetly not a long term solution.
#25
10-20-2007, 10:26 PM
not everyone has 36k dollars (on top of the gt700 kits already 30k w/ labor) labor to spend with EVOMS to gain 80 awhp. If your smart about it like most of the guys are here im sure people will be fine. I took it the extra step and pushed a lot more boost then others. This is no way urging people on to go break stuff.This is all said to show that I pushed the limit successfully. Fortunately now a couple underground tuners are popping out of the wood work and are willing to tune for much less then EVOMS/GIAC OTS products. If Evoms price tag included full custom dyno tuning, I would see it somewhat worth it(from Garrett himself- I think he gets 500 and hour). I am going the custom route,but the piggie backing u call it worked extremely well and for a long time. If I had a built motor at the time I probably would have left my car like it was and enjoyed it.
PS guys if you want the "best" building your motor I highly suggest Stephen Kaspar with Imagine Auto. He was extremely fair priced, and has in depth knowledge of this motor. GL
S
PS guys if you want the "best" building your motor I highly suggest Stephen Kaspar with Imagine Auto. He was extremely fair priced, and has in depth knowledge of this motor. GL
S
#27
10-21-2007, 07:27 AM
The me7.8 ecu does have a certain amount of leeway allowing you to make changes with boost controllers, different fpr's, ect...
Im most cases the me7.8 is actually the most adaptable ecu I have tuned in the me7 family. For example, in an audi me7.1 ecu if boost is more then a psi or so above what the ecu is expacting to see...the ecu will shut the throttle plate nearly instantly. In the porsche me7.8 ecu the amount of deviation from what the ecu wants to see and what it will let "fly" is far greater.
In respect to fueling. The me7.8 ecu has a very sophisticated requested lambda routine. If a tuner set this system up correctly and requested load/torque are correct in the ecu, even fairly large changes in air flow (more boost) can be fueled safely by the ecu.
Keep in mind the less the ecu has to correct/adapt for external changes such as boost controlers and such, the better and safer the car will run, but some testing and tweaking on a dyno can net significant gains.
Im most cases the me7.8 is actually the most adaptable ecu I have tuned in the me7 family. For example, in an audi me7.1 ecu if boost is more then a psi or so above what the ecu is expacting to see...the ecu will shut the throttle plate nearly instantly. In the porsche me7.8 ecu the amount of deviation from what the ecu wants to see and what it will let "fly" is far greater.
In respect to fueling. The me7.8 ecu has a very sophisticated requested lambda routine. If a tuner set this system up correctly and requested load/torque are correct in the ecu, even fairly large changes in air flow (more boost) can be fueled safely by the ecu.
Keep in mind the less the ecu has to correct/adapt for external changes such as boost controlers and such, the better and safer the car will run, but some testing and tweaking on a dyno can net significant gains.
Cheers
#28
10-21-2007, 08:39 AM
Yes I do. "Breaking" the code involved many many hours of disassembling and reverse engineering.
#29
10-21-2007, 04:43 PM
Cool! I would like to get a custom tune someday. I have a couple of different parts than the basic, if you can call it that, GT700. 1) A different, freer flowing exhaust, B) Big throttle body. It would be nice to have the car tuned for my exact components.
