996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

New GTR

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
  #16  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:05 AM
heavychevy's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !
First Drive:

The coming Nissan GT-R is a world-class supercar: Top speed of 193 mph, 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, a 473 hp, 433 lb ft twin-turbo V6 mounted in the front and driving all four wheels through a rear-mounted transaxle. Take a breath. Okay, continue. And a dual-clutch six-speed automatic you can operate via paddles on the steering wheel.

After a full day driving it on the Nurburgring, the Autobahn and up and over numerous little German country roads we can easily say this is one car that was not over hyped. It is truly a world-class supercar on par with, if not just ahead of, the iconic Porsche Turbo. (They had a Porsche Turbo on hand, too, and we thought the GT-R felt better tied down.)

But it's one thing to put a license plate on a race car and call it streetable. Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno said the new GT-R was designed and engineered as an all-around, all-season, all-weather car that is comfortable to drive every day, even at normal speeds on a normal day.

During the few minutes we drove at what could be called a "normal pace" that day we'd have to say we agree with him. But given only a few hours at the wheel of this, the most highly anticipated supercar in years, we were only in "normal" mode for very brief spurts. The rest of the time we were at some level between "pushing it" and "hammering on the *****'."

Our first time behind the wheel was on the A48 autobahn in Germany somewhere out around Koblenz or Koln or some other K-town where the German socialist government had not yet succeeded in adding those awful 120-km-hr speed limits. It was like Bonneville with elevation changes and guardrails. The only limitation out here was aerodynamic. Hence, we were obliged to go all-out whompin' fast the whole time.

Rolling right out of the autobahn rest stop where we rendezvoused with the Japanese engineering support crew, we nailed the throttle to the floor and man did the throttle respond. The 3.8-liter VR38 V6 is "an evolution" of the award-winning VQ engine family. It sits up front, with two of its six cylinders forward of the front axle and four aft. Two bagel-sized IHI turbos sit right at the exhaust manifold for quick response. The 433 lb ft of torque rails across the tach from 3200 to 5200 rpm. Peak 473 hp comes at 6400 revs.

A carbon fiber prop shaft ("Good damping and stiffness") runs back to the transaxle, incorporating the clutch, transmission and transaxle altogether. The shifting is done via a direct, twin-clutch system. One clutch handles the odd gears and another clutch handles the even ones. Shifts take 0.2 seconds. There are BorgWarner triple-cone synchronizers for all gears. Another shaft runs forward from that transaxle to send power to the front wheels. Below 25 mph the torque split is 50/50, above that, under normal driving, the split is 40/60. But it can split up to 2/98 under hard acceleration, which was what we were giving it.

Our car rode on 20-inch wheels wrapped by Bridgestone Potenza RE070s, 255/40 in front and 285/35 rears. Front suspension was upper and lower A-arms and the rear was a five-link.

It's always fun to go from zero to warp factor in a right hand-drive car using a jet-lagged left hand-drive brain, trying not to turn on the windshield wipers when you think you're hitting the turn signal.

The GT-R lists quarter-mile time at 11.7 seconds and entering the Autobahn we had no reason to doubt that. The turbo boost was, as promised, very progressive, with little or no discernable lag, just smooth, even power delivery.

Despite the late-morning hour and the mid-week day, there were still a few cars in the way. When we eased onto the 15.2-inch ventilated cross-drilled Brembo brakes from well into triple-digit speeds the car slowed without drama. But then traffic would clear out and the GT-R resumed its high velocity chase with ease.

There are three settings for the Bilstein Damptronic shocks: R, Sports and Comfort. We went out in Sports.

Top speed is listed at 193 mph but with traffic the best we could do was 176. You wouldn't try that in any country but Germany, where you can usually assume everyone else is paying attention. There was a Japanese engineer riding shotgun over on the left whom we dubbed "Bushido engineer-o" or brave engineer. He thought that was pretty funny.

While the coefficient of drag is an impressive 0.27, more than almost any production car, the GT-R also produces downforce at each axle, something very few production cars can claim.

"Cd is more important than downforce on a G35," said chief designer Hiroshi Hasegawa. "But in the case of the GT-R we have to make downforce."

At 193 mph you might appreciate that philosophy.

The first time we went out, the right front wheel felt just a little out of balance, so we came back in and they changed all four wheels. They're efficient, these guys. After that the car was smooth as well as stable and safe, due in equal parts to the German roadway and the Japanese engineering.

The whole car sits on the new PM platform, PM meaning Prime Midship. It's an evolution of the ubiquitous FM platform that sits underneath everything from 350Zs to crossover SUVs. The PM incorporates what Mizuno-san called a "hybrid superstructure body." There is carbon-injected material in the front end and carbon composite material underneath for aerodynamic downforce. There's even some polypropylene in the body, too. In any case, it's not just another FM variant.

We truly enjoyed the Autobahn experience. This is the perfect car for such a top-speed run-it gives such a sense of control at those speeds that you feel like you could do anything.

Next on our agenda of "anything" were some miles of country road. We were able to drive the GT-R back-to-back with a Porsche Turbo.

"Okay now, please enjoy," said the Nissan technician as we exited the company compound down the street from the Nurburgring.

After "much spirited driving," we can say the Turbo had a good deal more lag and more dive and squat than the GT-R. But once the Porsche got spooled up, achtung, baby. It felt lighter and the steering felt quicker, too. The biggest difference between the two was that the Turbo demanded more of its driver while the GT-R was easier to handle, flatter and more stable. We'd be happy with either one, if you're considering a birthday present or anything.

Next up on this Disneyland of a day was Der Nurburgring. This is what all those teenagers whose parents have not taken away their Playstation access really want to do: drive an actual GT-R around the actual Nurburgring as fast as grip, guts and gasoline allow.

Man-oh-flippin'-man. The real deal is about 100 times more thrilling than any computer simulation, even those with the little plastic steering wheel and feet pedals attached.

This was the new Nurburgring, too. Nissan wasn't foolish enough to turn this small squadron of car writer hacks loose on the narrow, blind, crazy-dangerous Nordschliefe. At the time of our drive there were only three prototype GT-Rs extant in the world, and all the apologizing on Earth wouldn't bring one back if you crunched it.

The new Nurburgring is faster, with wide, sweeping turns bordered by runoff areas so huge that even the most no-talent buffoon could likely stay on the pavement. So we did.

All the Japanese engineers and executives had been telling everyone that there was a 35-mph speed limit in the pits, but in all the excitement we kind of forgot about it and nailed the throttle right out of the parking spot right there in pit lane. The wide, low, squealing run-flat tires laid down long patches of black rubber as we launched past the closed garages, pulling back on the right paddle to shift the rear-mounted dual-clutch six-speed transaxle every time the engine got close to its 7000-rpm redline.

In no time at all we were roaring onto pit-out near the end of the straight and directly into the low, evening sun. By the time we got fully out on the front straight and were shifting up from four to five or so, the sun was directly in front of the GT-R and streaming into the windshield; we were trying to remember if that first right-hander came at this rise or just past it. It was just past it, but we'd already started braking and downshifting, the GR6's "synchro-rev control," which perfectly matched each downshift with a throttle blip much better than we'd ever have been able to match it.

Tiptoeing through the first couple turns to avoid the infamy of the run-off gravel, the car felt perfectly safe and willing. So we hammered it up through the gears down the hill and to the far 180-degree turn and started to feel more confident. By the end of the first lap we were flat out on the front straight, roaring up through all six gears for all it was worth.

Nissan lists lateral g's at 0.99, and we certainly bumped up against that in many a Nurburgring corner.

We only got three full laps and no one was timing us, so you'll just have to assume we set the lap record. Earlier, Mizuno-san had offered some lap times from the Nordschliefe for various cars driven by the German magazine SportAuto. Those times are driver-dependent, track-knowledge-dependent, weather-, traffic- and bunny-crossing-the-track dependent. But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58. So he suggested the GT-R's strong suit was that it offered "the best cost per lap time." For whatever that's worth.

The GT-R will be worth somewhere in the low-$70,000 range, which does make it perhaps the best cost per lap. We'll know for sure when it enters U.S. showrooms in May or June. Japan will get first crack at it, we get second and the Europeans, who did such a great job of getting out of our way during our Autobahn drive, will have to get it third.


SPECS: 2009 Nissan GT-R
On Sale: May/June

Base Price: Low 70s

Drivetrain: 3.8-liter, 473-hp, 433-lb-ft twin turbocharged V6; awd, six-speed automatic

Curb Weight: 3792 pounds

0-60: 3.5 seconds

Fuel Economy (EPA Combined): 21 mpg (mfg. target)
 
  #17  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:11 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by SlowMotion
Heavy didn't really say anything wrong... he's got some valid points. I'm still waiting for some jap-junk that can run with the best of them out of the box. I'm certain that tuned and on a diet it will be a beast of a car... but look at the mustang cobra... ~3800 lbs... takes 580+ (at the wheels) to run a mid-ish 11... and weight its not your friend in corners either.... hmmmm...

Seth
Seth

One of the difficulties here, is that in US you guys have cars we don't(not counting Grey imports) ..e.g. Corvettes and Cobras and vice versa...very few US cars make it to Australia...so admittedly, I may know as much about their capability as you guys.

However, you got to give the Japanese cars credit where its due..they come up with user friendly performance cars that are durable and highly moddable at a reasonable price.
 
  #18  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:12 AM
pearlcoupeg35's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 5,897
Rep Power: 283
pearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond reputepearlcoupeg35 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by rafiki
However, you got to give the Japanese cars credit where its due..they come up with user friendly performance cars that are durable and highly moddable at a reasonable price.

I couldnt have said it better myself.

(saving for the GTR as we speak)
 
  #19  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:16 AM
heavychevy's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !heavychevy Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by rafiki
Seth

One of the difficulties here, is that in US you guys have cars we don't(not counting Grey imports) ..e.g. Corvettes and Cobras and vice versa...very few US cars make it to Australia...so admittedly, I may know as much about their capability as you guys.

However, you got to give the Japanese cars credit where its due..they come up with user friendly performance cars that are durable and highly moddable at a reasonable price.

I am not bashing the GT-R, I think it will be a great car and I have said from day one it will be neck and neck with the 997 TT at a fraction of the cost, with the Nissan (durability) factor kicking in.

But everywhere you look there are fanboys (of which I did not mean to accuse you of) posting all the hype stuff without looking at specs or facts and claiming the car will beat everything on earth.

I'd love to take one and beat some of the people who call it "Jap Junk" etc. I hate when people act like that. But none the less you are considered a hater when you try to keep things in perspective, and a lot of what I ahve said is coming true now. The car will be a success and there will be lots of tuner models and variants that will improve on what we will have from the start.
 
  #20  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:18 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by heavychevy
First Drive:
....The biggest difference between the two was that the Turbo demanded more of its driver while the GT-R was easier to handle, flatter and more stable.
Thanks..haven't seen this before.

I drove the GTR a couple of times around 1994 and bought a Toyota GT4 group A instead...a mistak in hindsight...but what I recalled most about it is how competent the car was at speed across less than ideal terrain...awesome really...can't say I have driven another car(unmodified) that gave me quite as much confidence at speed.
 
  #21  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:28 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by heavychevy
But everywhere you look there are fanboys (of which I did not mean to accuse you of) posting all the hype stuff without looking at specs or facts and claiming the car will beat everything on earth.
No offense taken...I also hate hype in all its forms..no doubt about it that a modded Subaru Impreza will be quicker on most roads...but I have stayed away so far because of the fan club that you can hear approaching with blarring subwoofers miles away...

I like the GTR because it is a comfortable capable everyday supercar..a lot like the 996tt, other than looks of course.
 
  #22  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:37 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by pearlcoupeg35
(saving for the GTR as we speak)
Pearle,I also love my Porsche, but like you I appreciate Jap cars.
Having owned 2 celicas, 3 celica GT4 turbos, corollas, Tarago(all gone) and now, Yaris and echo..I cannot recall one mechanical problem with any!

Happy to say, I have expereinced the same level of reliability with the 996tt and before it the C36 AMG, that is still in the family never to be sold.

Like you , I will also be saving for the GTR...probably will get a good used one though...but it won't be replacing the 996tt.
 
  #23  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:44 PM
ol'school's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Nationwide
Posts: 2,036
Rep Power: 99
ol'school is infamous around these parts
Car doesn't look good at all.
 
  #24  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:53 PM
drewTT's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: so cal
Posts: 812
Rep Power: 52
drewTT has a spectacular aura aboutdrewTT has a spectacular aura aboutdrewTT has a spectacular aura about
throw some bigger turbos on that thing; it will be a beast.
 

Last edited by ManoverMatter; 10-16-2007 at 12:21 PM.
  #25  
Old 10-17-2007, 03:19 PM
mikerosi's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bay Area,CA
Posts: 511
Rep Power: 42
mikerosi is a jewel in the roughmikerosi is a jewel in the roughmikerosi is a jewel in the rough
Originally Posted by rafiki
agree that it is heavy and not as good looking as 996tt.Not sure about interior though.I recall the seats of even the early models were very good.
Easy now Rafiki These are are little people with tiny ***** and little *****. They are owned by the French so now "big Vagina" comes into the equation! I really don`t know what you are getting so exited about!
 
  #26  
Old 10-17-2007, 06:39 PM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by mikerosi
Easy now Rafiki These are are little people with tiny ***** and little *****. They are owned by the French so now "big Vagina" comes into the equation! I really don`t know what you are getting so exited about!



..Mikey you CRACK, me up.
 
  #27  
Old 10-17-2007, 08:35 PM
4G64T's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 156
Rep Power: 24
4G64T is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by rafiki
Pearle,I also love my Porsche, but like you I appreciate Jap cars.
Having owned 2 celicas, 3 celica GT4 turbos, corollas, Tarago(all gone) and now, Yaris and echo..I cannot recall one mechanical problem with any!

Happy to say, I have expereinced the same level of reliability with the 996tt and before it the C36 AMG, that is still in the family never to be sold.

Like you , I will also be saving for the GTR...probably will get a good used one though...but it won't be replacing the 996tt.
Rafiki, I am in a similar boat to you. I love the Porsche for sure but really appreciate the Japanese cars. When I bought my 996TT, I still kept my 1996 Eclipse and EVO9MR. The Eclipse in it modded form on race gas will spank the 996TT but the 996TT is still a much better package. For the GT-R, I have always respected the specs of the car but as far as looks are concerned, it does nothing for me at all. Where in Oz are you? I am originally from Sydney and living in the Philippines. Going back to Syndey in December for Christmas.
 
  #28  
Old 10-17-2007, 09:58 PM
RandomName's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County
Posts: 573
Rep Power: 39
RandomName is infamous around these parts
The interior shot looks horrible. def. going to have a hard time selling if they keep it.
The truth is besides a few fan boy who will shall out anything for it, they have to convince the average american consumers that it is better than new m3 and porsche.

Nissan needs to come up way better marketing than "its fast."
 
  #29  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:00 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by 4G64T
....For the GT-R, I have always respected the specs of the car but as far as looks are concerned, it does nothing for me at all. Where in Oz are you? I am originally from Sydney and living in the Philippines. Going back to Syndey in December for Christmas.
4G64T

I think of the GTR as being imbalanced ...996tt has fabulous masculine/feminine balance if you like..the GTR is too masculine..I wouldn't call it ugly though.

it would be great to catch up for coffee when you get to Sydney.
 
  #30  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:06 AM
rafiki's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Rep Power: 33
rafiki is infamous around these parts
Originally Posted by RandomName
..... they have to convince the average american consumers that it is better than new m3 and porsche.

Nissan needs to come up way better marketing than "its fast."
I think Nissan will bypass the " average american consumers" and market directly to the intelligent discerning ones.

Ones that will also consider Porsche, M3 and other supercars.
....but don't worry, you won't be affected one little bit by this marketing.
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 AM.