Even with the stock 4 pistons, Pagid Orange and ATE blue, I can make repeated stops from 165-171 down to 30 going about 25 degrees downhill in a 3650 lbs car. There arent many factory brake systems that can do that.

 

Were these tested on the same day, same surface? If neither, that comparison is worthless.

 

In the limited experience I have with my new 996tt- and 150k miles of experience on my M3- my opinion is just one of feel rather than actual performance. I tend to agree with Finality: the brakes feel very stiff and hard- yet stop me in an extremely linear and fast method. They just feel different doing it and I also think it may be related to the AWD which will/should adjust the sense of forward inertia. My son, who is very used to the M3 and has a tricked out Subaru WRX, during his first drive in the 996tt thought the brakes didn't work or were simply weird- like no feel at all. I had him slam them hard to a full stop, but just under the ABS limit from about 60mph so he could get used to the brakes. I also like the way the ABS kicks in- it seems to happen much later- like the lock up isn't occurring as early and thus the calipers are maybe not so 'grabby'.
I think the car stops exceptionally well, better than the M3 and if your's does not- there is probably a problem with it.

 

Now that's interesting. I've two M3s and I think BMW's stock brakes are really weak. Unless bimmer is super light weight, I don't think it'll come close to braking power of the big reds. At the same time, I don't have experience with 4 pot turbo brakes. Only thing I know is my brakes on my Porsche are light years ahead of my BMW.

My input is based on following two. Bimmer is only 200lbs heavier than GT3.





Like others mentioned, try the SS lines and different pads.

 

This is easy. Two cars traveling in a stright line at same speed. Both hit the brakes when one sounds horn. He who stops first, wins.

 

I think the 996tt brakes are way better...I just wanted to post some data out there. I don't know the site's testing procedures...it was on different year cars, so I suspect way different dates.....


FWIW, I think if you work with fluid/pads...the 996tt stock system rocks. The pccb's are just to expensive for me to consider...just me.


JB

 

I had a similar "feeling" between the Lotus and the Prius.

When I tested them back to back, I found that the Lotus was stopping much sooner. But part of what I was "feeling" was the front end dipping as the suspension was softer, and another part was that the engine was up front.

So part of this could be the engine layout of the Porsche, I know the Lotus was the first Mid-engined car I have had.

Just an idea.

 

^^I agree with many of the statements above regarding "subjective" braking feel. The 911 is a differently balanced car. To add to that, the "touchy" sedan brake feeling was never a preference for me (although many of my friends like it), as I have a harder time modulating the level of braking that I need during sporty driving sessions.

I've heard these comments before and it really boils down to driver preference. The last turbo i drove had fabulous brakes. The last BMW m3 I drove (2 weeks ago) wasn't very impressive. My .02

 

that's how you compare apples to apples, nice post.

 

Most of what that one site used was factory estimations which they had the 0-60 for the TT at 4.2 or something, if that's the same place, but it's not real tests from what I gathered.

I'd put money an M3 cant outbrake a TT.

 

I had a M3 and too agree that the porsche has better brakes...that said, the M3 that I had (comp package) may have stopped to 0 faster than my turbo from speeds under 100 mph...that said, the turbo seems to drop the 150 to 60 MUCH faster than the M ever did and is able to do it with repitition.


Its all about the feel, my m5 is redic on the initial tip in, but the turbo has overall better modulation abilities and general stopping power...

 

+1

I've driven more than a dozen M3s of all generations and own an X3. The pad material that comes with most of the BMWs is super grabby when initially applied, so around town the brakes FEEL/BITE very well.
The difference really shows with aggressive brake use and the repeatability of stops. This is where the P-brakes are superior, thermal capacity is much higher.
....JMHO.



Be good,
TomK

 

Gentlemen.

I agree that the pedal feel of the 996TT is somewhat vague at times. Go out and get some heat into the brakes you have probably glazed them over.

I have owned a few M3's over the years and currently have a e36 m3 club racer.
I also get to drive and service a high number of 996TT's some stock and most highly modified.

The brake torque that the 4 piston brembo caliper produces is signifgently more than that of the single piston cast iron floating caliper equipped on the M3.

Pad material maybe softer on the M3 thus giving you the alusion of better bite.
Make no doubt about it the 996TT brakes are better than that of the M3. Its a simple matter of physics. Also keep in mind that the 996TT can accelerate faster than a M3 in a defined amount of road thus attaining a higher top speed with a higher velocity. 996TT brakes need to work harder in the same amount of distance since the car is traveling at a higher rate of speed.

M3 brakes are great for the street, Dont get me wrong. But you take them to the track and pound on them a few times and they cant take the abuse that the 996tt brakes can.
Not to mention the fact that the swept area of the 996TT brake assembly is greater than the M3 As is the overall diameter and thickness of the Porsche brake package.

996TT owners if you are experiancing that vague feel. Simply take your 996TT out and get some real heat into the brakes and properly cool them down. This way you dont glaze them some more. Chances are the bite you are lookin for will come back.

We run stock PCCB's on our GT2 with stock pads and I dont think I have ever had any problems with brake fade or feel.
One thing we have found with the PCCB's is that they are great under very stressful conditions (high heat) but they have a very narrow operating temperature range. Most people who are experiancing brake rotor problems on PCCB's are actually shocking the brakes. These brakes need to be brought up to temperature slowly and they temperature needs to be maintained in the rotor. Its this large variance in temperature superheating and supercooling that causes the fiber materials in the PCCB to come apart.

Our GT2 makes a ton of power and it sees the track often. We surely arent babying the car when at the track either. The car has its stock rotors from day 1 and they are perfectly fine.

Another thing to consider is that while ceramic rotors are great they will also wear out.
They were out on Formula 1 cars- They wear out on LMP1 cars as well. They will however last longer than standard cast iron rotors, they are lighter and can take more punishment under racing conditions. Thats why they are used.


Hope that sheds some light on the subject.

 

Yes, but just one stop dosen´t say much about brake quality in my opinion.. The brakes must withstand alot of 70-0 sessions before the quality is really shown!

/Pete

 

Hi.

What do you recommend as a procedure to "tune up" the pads/rotors.

Also, I HATE the rust I see on the hats....do you have any two piece rotors (or know of any) that will fit on the stock system/caliper/pad that will avoid the rust I see. I know I seem silly and I should just paint the thing, but perhaps I can save a few pounds too (from my wallet most likely )


Thanks. Enjoy all of your posts.

JCB