personally I think this is awesome torque for the stock set of turbos and well within reliability of the motor. 1 bar of boost and that type of power with stock exhaust is awesome. Congrats man


Suman

 

Peaky compared to UMW.... That's interesting, because the dyno chart that Kevin e-mailed me for his stage 1 flash when we were discussing my purchasing his software shows the torque starting to fall away at 4500, just like this car (and probably every other properly dynoed K16 car).

 

Tony
Have you started on SUperMAN's car yet? Who is going to tune it?
Happy New Year
Robert

 

I was using the curve posted by jb_memphis and the first one in wooosh's referenced thread.

Maybe some definitions are in order. Peaky in this instance refers to how wide the flat portion of the torque is and how quickly it falls as rpm further increases. Taking a look at the curves you posted the flat portion runs from about 3750 to 4500 (delta of 750 rpm). It then drops pretty linearly from 490 ish @ 4,500 rpm to about 310 @ 6250. So once off the plateau the torque drops off 180/1k rpms.

As a reference take a look at the curve posted by jb_memphis. Torque curve is relatively flat from 3500 to 5500 (delta of 2k rpm). It then drop about linearly from 440 @ 5500 to about 330 @ 7k. Slope of the drop-off is about 73/1k rpms.

So in summary your plateau is narrower (750 vs 2000 rpm) and once past the plateau drops off about 2.4 times more quickly. Thats what I mean by peaky.

 

seems like you have had a really good custom job done.

I am curious with all of the comments about danger to the engine for boost above 1.0 bar on K16s.

I regularly see 1.1 and 1.2

I have a Milltek, panel filter and flash and my car has K16's. what danger does this pose?

should I be boosting this much?

sorry to hijack you thread 'Seal Grey'

 

The issues with the accuracy of dynojets have been well documented.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...highlight=dyno
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...t=dyno&page=12
(note the owner of Harman Motive, host of the west coast dyno day discussing why he used to own a dynojet and sold it because of its "issues"). There are several more if you search.

Please post a link to any mustang dyno plot of a K16 car that has a better looking, less "peaky" curve than the one I posted. I'd wager to say you won't find a single one. You can start with all of the cars that were dynoed at the east and west coast dyno days last month, all of the vivid tuned cars, etc.

Considering the dyno plot that Kevin himself sent me for his base K16 tune has pretty much the same curve (and I'd imagine he knows his tune better than anyone). I'll go by that curve. I'll happily post a pic of that curve, but only with Kevin's permission.

Every K16 car runs out of steam at the same point. It's a efficiency issue with the turbo, not a tune. Search a bit and you'll see what I mean.

Bottom line, I'm not trying to take anything away from Kevin's tune or anyone else's for that matter. Everyone who owns it seems to be very happy. His program switching box is also very cool and something I lack with my tune. However, I believe my tune makes more power with a similar power curve at the same boost. I've yet to see conclusive evidence to the contrary.

 

Wooosh is the invited dyno director at a big Supra shootout....with 1000hp cars. I think he is good at using dyno's....but I cannot prove anything.


Ignore numbers.....those can be massaged quite a bit....the shape of the curve is the key. Flatter is more driveable.....

No insult meant. Just looked "peaky" to my eyes, as others have injected as well (pun intended). Please post any data you have without the 1.2 bar peak.

My clutch (stock) could not handle the torque from the UMW 1.0 bar tune. Nor could Mikelly's. I have never had clutch trouble in any car in 20+ years of sports car ownership. I don't drag, etc. So.....take that for what it is worth....be prepared to get a better clutch with your tune....and then the LWFW is "needed" of course. Got pricey for me fast.

JCB

 

JCB-

I think you are missing something...this IS 1 bar data. We hold 1 bar to nearly redline, the power "drop" off is a normal function of the VE of the motor. Some tuners ramp boost while rpm increases to hold power longer at the expense of MUCH higher IAT's at redline and less repeatable power.

We have tested at least a half a dozen other k16 flashes over the years, and I have yet to see one in person with a "flat" torque curve.

 

Not yet...I hope still me =).

He's posting in the thread, maybe he'll chime in.

 

car's still with steven. Not done yet. Fuel system mods still occurring. Lets see me get her back home first shall we boys!!!!



S

 

Maybe I haven't made it clear. THE CHARTS ARE AT 1 BAR (NO SPIKES). Here's the whole story:
When I went up there we did 3 stock pulls. All were very consistent, the numbers are posted.
Then Tony flashed my car. We did one pull. The car ran very strong. When Tony hopped out of the car I asked him what the numbers were (he was controling the dyno on his laptop inside the car for more control). He said, and I quote, "VERY strong, but I don't want to tell you and get you excited because it spiked for a brief moment to 1.2 which I won't allow. I'm going to make some tweaks and dial that out." I said, "Fine, but you seriously have to tell me the number." He said "509 wheel torque, I'm not even going to tell you the hp." HE DELETED THAT CHART (the only one that had a brief 1.2 spike). IT IS NOT POSTED ANYWHERE and even I have never seen it.
He then re-flashed my car to reflect the tweaks (adding some timing, leaning the AFR a bit, and dialing down the boost to stop the spike). P.S. I think Suman may be right that the spike was attributable to the restrictive stock exhaust.
We did another pull. He made some more changes. We did another pull, he did some more changes (This is the whole point of custom tuning). I think we went through 4 rounds of tweaking total.

When all was said and done the car pulled 1.0 bar even right up to redline and the AFRs were right around 12 the whole way through the power band.
This final 1 Bar pull is the graph that is posted here. I'm going to say it one more time to make sure it is absolutely clear. The charts posted here are 1 bar straight through (no spikes).

Also, I'm not doubting Woosh's dyno skill, I'm doubting the dynojet. Are you saying that the dyno plot that Kevin forwarded me was incorrect and that Woosh's is more accurate than Kevin's?

 

guys 1 bar on a stock car like you brought right form the dealer to EPL. On top of that what other tuner retunes your car for perfection. NO ONE! everyone else throws an OTS software in there cars and prays there afr's and boost are perfect. CUSTOM TUNE BABY! only way I fly! Imagine an exhaust man maybe a set of diverter valves and you wont do the hybrid turbos lol! yeah right.. kidding... powers a nutty addiction. Good luck




S

 

Thanks for the kind words. I'm getting gitty for the hybrids. I hear you about the sick progression. I used to think my stage 1 S4 was too fast (I think that lasted about an hour).

 

Looks good guys. I am not negative at all...zero negative here. Just looking at curves.....

Me....I think a tinge of conservatism comes in when you think how much a blown engine would cost.....even just a top end....hence I suspect a lot of what we see by all tuners is leaving some on the table. I like the curve shapes I saw from Woosh. I have never put my own car on the dyno...so I have no idea what it will do. I have the same code Woosh has.

Best of luck and keep us posted. Thanks for the clarification.


JB

 

explains it all. lol not bashing but I knew you ahd the same file.


S