I'm probably going to sell my 2001 C2 and buy a TT. I want to do my homework up front and only do this once . . . as MARSKI has said many times. I believe this will save me a lot of money in the long run. So please excuse me for all my questions

Unless it snows in Denver, this will be my DD. I will definitely be tracking this car. Drag and street racing will be very very limited. I see a TT or Z06 about once a week. There are very few high HP cars in Denver.

It makes $ sense to buy an already modded car. With tracking and 60-130 burst's in mind, it seems the K24/18G and the newly talked about K16/16G turbo might fit my needs best. A 550-600 HP quick spooling turbo would be great on the street and track. I'm really looking forward to find out what Seal Grey Matte ends up with HP/TQ wise with the K16/16G from EPL. Dan at Vivid mentioned you can upgrade your K16's to K16/16G for 999 plus tuning. I've read EPL, Vivid and Proto will all have tuning for this turbo. I wonder how this turbo will compare HP/TQ curve wise to a Promotive tuned K24/18G. I realize the K24/18G can go to a much higher tune. But at a much higher cost that I would never do. I also read that an K24 (x50) can be upgraded to a K24/18G for 1200 bucks. This might be a good route to take especially with a still warranted car.

I wonder why these two modded turbo's have not sold?
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d.php?t=110031
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d.php?t=100251

They seem like great deals at 60K and 70K. I wonder if most people are scared away because of so many performance mods, possible tracking and hard and fast driving of the cars. That's what these cars are made for.

I really love tracking. I was thinking of getting a dedicated track car and then supercharging my C2. I love the look of my car. With an EVO SC I could possibly keep up with my wife's BMW 335xi she is getting in the next couple weeks. Vishnu will chip it for 1,295 and you'll have almost 400/400. What a great deal. Stock, the 335 is much quicker then my C2. At Denver's altitude, a N/A car loses 25% of it's power. I can't be the slowest in the family.

I wish Seal Grey Matte would finish up his EPL K16/16G. This would really help out in my decision making. How important is a CPO'd car. Can you get one that's modified?

Thanks for any responses or suggestions.

Ken

 

Hey Ken,

I'm in a similar position to you, researching the options and your goals seem similar to mine. Hopefully soon we will have the results of the 16G tests. Its a problem that the 996tt community have not done any proper flash/kit comparisons (eg. shootouts) so its quite hard to work out the comparative differences between the tunes, but you can pick up bits and peices by reading this board and rennlist. I especially want to know about the differences (lag, throttle response, driveability, torque peaks) between the K16/16G and K16/24 hybrids, and the differences between the softronic tune and UMW tune.

As well as the vivid 16g setup, you also want to check out the UMW turbos, they are well regarded. The tuners are very responsive, give them a call to explain your needs and they can give you advice and prices. Dan @ vivid just spent over 1/2 hour with me going through options, and Kevin @ UMW has been responsive via emails. I have not tried other tuners.

Having had my car for a month, I'm learning what is good and bad about it. You probably want to buy & drive you car for a couple of months to work out what you like and don't like.

The key is to work out what bits/package suits your needs without laying out too much $$, so you need to do your homework and engage the tuners for advice. I want to upgrade once and leave it alone, as it will cost you more if you don't do your research and you may not get what you want. A flash + small mods are an improvement, but a 16G or K16/24 setup should not cost you too much more and you get more gains again over a stage 1 setup.

One more thing that is obvious after driving this car for a month, the handling needs to be fixed, surprising for a car of this calibre. Rear end traction is wonderful, but front end is pretty poor. It does not take much to push this car into significant understeer. Apart from an upgraded rear swaybar, I have not worked out what else is needed to fix the understeer, and have been recommended to fit coilovers but I'm wary of making the car too uncomfortable.

Good luck with your journey, and be sure to swap notes here.

 

You'll need a 3k tune with the 24/18g.

That's one possible reason. Another is that people like to do their own mods, and make it more of their own unique car.


A CPO is nice but its not the end of the world if you find the right car/seller. Have a good PPI done, drive the car yourself (listen for creeks, thumps, 2nd gear pop outs, etc...) and you'll be good.

IMO a 16/16g will be plenty of power if tracking is your main objective. If 60-130's are more of what you're shooting for then the 24/18g will be nice. Otherwise IMO 550-580 bhp is more than plenty for a track car. Spend some money in the suspension (JIC's or Motons with control arms, toe links, dog bones, etc...) and brakes (GT3's 350mm all the way around are selling for just over 3k now) and you're pretty much good. And maybe later down the road get a nice set of track wheels and tires.

I'll hopefully be doing the 16/16g soon and will have some numbers for you. I'll also be looking to possibly sell the car if you're interested. Good luck with your search!

 

For tracking you do not need anything other then a flash with stock turbos.. dvs, bmc filter and and exhaust.. thats it...
everything else is simply left on the table...

 

Sorry I'm not moving fast enough for you...

Well, for those of you who are really torturing themselves, I'll give a quick status update. The new snails are bolted on and running fine. We did one completely untuned dyno pull and I was VERY pleased. It made shocking power on very low boost. We are going to take our time dialing this in and getting it perfect. I will post results then.

Mind you this car is bone stock aside from the turbos (stock exhaust, DVs, intake, headers, EVERYTHING). With the results it made on pump gas at 1 bar it would have been one of the faster cars at the east coast dyno day. More to come.

 

what he said for power + upgraded suspension (jics at minimum, motons if you want the best). i had a horrible time with a stock turbo at the track.

 

Dean, MARSKI, Carnerd and Seal Grey, thanks for the replies. It seems the K16/16G may be a great, less expensive alternative to those of us that don't need a 600+ hp turbo. How much is the tuning going to be for this turbo?

I do have a seperate set of track tires for my c2. If I do buy a turbo, the suspension and brakes will be immediately addressed. I'll buy a set of hollow spoke wheels for track tires. Seal Grey, take all the time you need, but hurry. Thanks again for the replies. What a great forum.

Ken

 

Talk with Dan at Vivid. Great guy! He'll hook you up right!

Sounds good. If you need anymore advice on suspension and brakes you know where to find it! Good luck!

 

Whoa! I need this set up! Can't wait to hear more!!!

 

Need some time for EPL to work their magic. Tony is going to double and triple check everything to make sure this car makes the most safe power that's possible. That's the beauty of a custom tune. The only problem is, it takes a bit longer than off the shelf. Sit tight, results will be posted by the end of the week.

 

Stay tuned.

SGM should give us the results of his 16G EPL tune very soon now, and based on his hints I expect them to be very impressive.

In about 3 weeks, I will have my car done with 16G and Proto tuned.

I know someone here with almost the same setup as mine but with a K24/18G instead of my K16/16G, also tuned by Proto.

we'll try to get our 3 cars on the same dyno same day...
this should give us some pretty good comparisons 16G Proto vs. 18G Proto and EPL vs. Proto for 16G...

 

To be a viable option the 16/16Gs will have to be competitive with spool and power characteristics of a 16/24 running 1.2 BAR and putting out 500 RWHP. I'm hoping that these turbos open up yet another TT option. Remember anything over 1.1 BAR sustained and you should definitely upgrade the wastegate springs.

BTW Why are you running stock exhaust and DVs?

 

Ken,

I bought an already heavily modded '04 996TT IA Stage4+ and it has been great.

My car still has some of the factory warranty left which has worked out great, just had it at a denver dealership a couple weeks ago and they replaced a lot of parts even with all the mods, they even fixed some of the problems with the mods, not under warranty, but still well worth it because of the relationship they have with some of the sponsors on this site.

dc

 

And i'll hopefully have a Softronic tuned 16/16g soon, for more comparisions. Although numbers are really subjective to the dyno.

 

Agreed, but at least EPL and Vivid are both on mustang dynos. As long as we're both on 93 octane and you make sure to get weather corrected numbers, the results should at least be moderately comparable.