wow.. very nice design.. curious as to what the price is though

 

cheaper then most normal headers. http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/a...5-p-47137.html

add the Tial 44mm Wastegates for about $500, still cheaper then somes headers

 

Hello All,

I would be curious as to how you are going to do this Kevin. I would think it would have something to do with giving a real high wastegate duty down low so that boost comes in hard, thus giving us a higher torque number. This is not some trick you possess to make more torque with factory wastgates and the ECU it is a simple modulation of wastegate tables. We do it with Subarus and Evo's everyday.

The bottom line is that external wastegates are more efficient. Period. I want to hear the argument that they will not be. You are taking exhaust flow out of a free moving, mostly laminar, flow of air and putting it into the atmosphere, not back into an exhaust stream.
Now you also talk of race cars with straight pipes and there being no static pressure on the turbine housing but 95% of these cars that we run have a catalytic converter which DOES create a static resistance based on the fact that there is some sort of an exhaust back pressure on the turbo. The product we are offering is not for just for race cars anymore but guys that want this on a street car.

I dont want to start an arguement but I do want to clear things up. I have a lot of respect for you Kevin but your simple tactics for demeaning our product is a little uncalled for I think.

Mitch M

 

I run straight pipes in race situations with Todd's incoming hybrid k-24's. Is there a reason to switch my new Vivid header for the newer Vivid header or with straight pipes is the advantage diminished?
thanks Dan, Mitch.

 

Send me back those headers you bought from me for a full credit. The pics of these on post 1 are on a K24/18G car, its a monster. On the track and the street, this is noticeable. For you the difference is going to be your corner exiting with torque, your ability to keep the turbo spooling up each shift consistent, and delivering strong power all the way to redline.

I would say that Proto would disagree, but I have not let you down yet Tom!

 

Kevin you read the post TOTALLY wrong... it does not say anything about adding power to YOUR specific kit. It says as tested on our K16 car, it added X amount of power. Alot of guys have asked for a kit to run external wastegates, and those guys which I wont name their names run K24/18G turbos or EVO GT700 turbos or even stock turbos. You may have intellectual keyboard battles, but if you were a true business person and wanted to discuss our differences, you would use the telephone. You may build turbos that does not mean you invented them.

Maybe your European ECU tuner can shed light on how the programing will affect either the internal or external wastgates. A blow for a blow. Nothing to hide here. As a non sponsor of this forum, for the courtesy of those that pay to be here, you should keep your product promotion not involved in others product press release info. I will gladly remove your name from the thread which only helps in your brand recognition. I don't believe myself or Mitch have ever posted in one of your Rennlist threads???

Bottomline is this concept works, you dont need 10 feet of pipe to make a difference. Its sad that as an emerging market, the 996TT is now less expensive and able enthusiasts to reach a different level of performance. Small based shops take so much offense when others come into the market and take away some of their pie...

I am sorry but the days of charging $10K to gut a turbo for $800 and map it for $1500 are gone. Jump on in the EVO, WRX, Supra, 350Z, RX7 market with a hybrid turbo using a internal wastegate making 600hp, i would order 30 of them. Go look at www.forcedperformance.com, they do a great job of it and sell alot.

Over this baby forum battle stuff...

 

please dial the number below if you have anything proactive to discuss...

 

Kevin,

Look I am not going to argue this fact. And it is just that a fact. External wastegates are more efficient period. Show me any tech sheet that says otherwise.

Speaking of "tech sheets" anybody can find tech sheets online. Most turbo companies post them.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ch_center.html

http://www.ihi-turbo.com/turbo_RHE-RHF.htm

This is just to name a few.

On top of all that info if you re-read my post I never said anything about keeping the wastegate closed. You talk of having to put stronger springs in the internal gates and they perform a lot like externals in terms of building and holding boost. This says nothing for pressure against the turbine or expelling it so your point is really says nothing for the internals being better, they can just be almost as good.

I am done with this as this has taken way to much of my time already and I am not going to sit here and have keyboard battles all day. I am very busy as I imagine you are Kevin and we will leave it at that.

Mitch M

 

Car sounds good when passing by camera.

 

Hey Guys,
I for one appreciate the back and forth dialog. Kevin is giving his opinion backed up by data and manufacturer's claims. I also appreciate Vivid for bringing a new product to market and offering something different for our cars. I think stating opinions regarding certain technologies is helpful and I for one definetely learn a lot from these threads. The amount of technical knowledge here is valueable and is one of the reasons these forums are so great. Tuners who are on the cutting edge with years of experience actually post here.
I hope Kevin continues to post and Vivid backs their products with hard data. Which they have with a K16 car. I'd love to see some run comparisons with other tuners turbo kits and see just how much better an external WG is VS the internal. I was thinking of doing this exact setup. I'd love to know more about it..... from both sides.

 

Damn these would work perfect for my setup, but I have WAY to much on my plate to buy right now Oh well they will always be around when I finally can put the money towards them.

 

OK, let me make it REALLY clear that I'm not on anyone's side here, but I had a quick question that might add to the debate:

1. On a stock K16 or K24 hot-side housing, does the integrated wastegate flap open towards or away from the turbine wheel?

I could be wrong here, but I think I remember (when we were setting the crack pressure on my 1 bar actuators) them opening away from the turbine wheel. Anyone care to confirm? I don't feel like pulling my exhaust off to double check

 

K16 turbine:

 

So by "could be wrong" I meant definitely am wrong...

Thanks Roadsterdoc.

 

thank you Str8blst, forums were brought to the world for knowledge. i apologize for the deviation.

thank you for the pic Roadsterdoc. you can see that on the internal wastegate the flap opens in front of the wheel.