Are you killing your tranny while tracking???
#16
04-07-2008, 08:53 PM
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Had lots of Audi's...auto and stick....the tranny fluid once hot turns "dark" and looks dirty. Supposedly this is ok....so appearance can be deceiving assuming the overall issue is the same.
#17
04-07-2008, 09:15 PM
Yes I know tranny fluid should be and will turn dark, but I think people that subject their cars to the stresses of the track should change them anyways and err on the side of caution. I have till June most likely before I get back on track, so I'm going to get all that sorted out with the weight loss program.
#18
04-07-2008, 09:25 PM
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I hear you...and agree fully. I wonder why one cannot just "add a cooler" for cheap....
Do other fluids (diffs..) need the same tlc?
Do other fluids (diffs..) need the same tlc?
#19
04-08-2008, 02:32 PM
What has been relayed to me is that the gearing in the Turbo is not the gearing that is in the GT2/GT3 and that there is a good reason that the GT2/3 have the tranny coolers.
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
#20
04-08-2008, 02:35 PM
Tom, We went with your exact clutch and it slipped on the first drive. I never got the car back due to that... The mechanic wouldn't let me pick it up because he noticed it slipping in 6th... So we're having to go with something a little more stout!
Mike
Mike
ok guys I sure already tried to go with a tranny cooler. the GT2 has it but the addition is cost prohibitive.
I have a stage 4 race clutch which is NOT like the sachs upgrade I had before. this has minimal to NO slip and gets tough to drive on the street. however, when you get to around 600hp the sachs clutch we all upgraded to initially will not hold the power as Mike found out.
my clutch grabs at whatever rpm you give it and you either take off or stall out!
I have opened my tranny box twice in 20k track miles. replaced a second and third gear syncro and second gear thought to have been previously damaged.
later got notchy going to thirdl, opened box and replaced syncro.
yes I drive hard, no I am not perfect on everyone of the hundreds of shifts, I think my experience would be similar to any cars tranny that has that many track miles.
as for the fluid, I change the tranny fluid after every 6 track days, and it looks like **** everytime.
I have a stage 4 race clutch which is NOT like the sachs upgrade I had before. this has minimal to NO slip and gets tough to drive on the street. however, when you get to around 600hp the sachs clutch we all upgraded to initially will not hold the power as Mike found out.
my clutch grabs at whatever rpm you give it and you either take off or stall out!
I have opened my tranny box twice in 20k track miles. replaced a second and third gear syncro and second gear thought to have been previously damaged.
later got notchy going to thirdl, opened box and replaced syncro.
yes I drive hard, no I am not perfect on everyone of the hundreds of shifts, I think my experience would be similar to any cars tranny that has that many track miles.
as for the fluid, I change the tranny fluid after every 6 track days, and it looks like **** everytime.
#21
04-08-2008, 03:40 PM
What has been relayed to me is that the gearing in the Turbo is not the gearing that is in the GT2/GT3 and that there is a good reason that the GT2/3 have the tranny coolers.
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
#22
04-08-2008, 04:11 PM
What both have claimed is that the fluid doesn't reach the 5th, 6th, and reverse gears. This causes problems over time, especially in 30 minute sessions we see at places like VIR and Road Atlanta.
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
#23
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
I realize you are going to be adding Clutchmaster's treatment, but which OEM pressure plate are you getting treated? I thought you were going with a Sachs 999 pressure plate?
#24
04-08-2008, 05:08 PM
What both have claimed is that the fluid doesn't reach the 5th, 6th, and reverse gears. This causes problems over time, especially in 30 minute sessions we see at places like VIR and Road Atlanta.
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
Cost and difficulty of said projects? (Not the whole GT2 car)
#25
04-08-2008, 05:26 PM
Dez, I'm researching that right now... I've costed most of the parts for an aftermarket race part solution at about $1000 in labor, not including the whole "drilling and tapping the tranny" issue.
Mike
Mike
#26
04-08-2008, 05:29 PM
Kevin's tune is the real deal, and it's cost me more than a couple headaches and $$ trying to get the right (should have been HIS) clutch in it to fully appreciate it.
Mike
#27
04-08-2008, 05:46 PM
That's the way I'm going too. Sachs 999 with clutchmasters special sauce (although I'll probably go organic GT2 or GT3 disc instead of ceramic). With that much clamping force, the organic disc should hold. Probably won't grab as hard or live as long as a ceramic, but this is mainly a street car for me, so I'm cool with that.
For a second, I thought you found some new Porsche OEM pressure plate + clutchmasters treatment and you got me curious. Looks like we're on the same page though.
For a second, I thought you found some new Porsche OEM pressure plate + clutchmasters treatment and you got me curious. Looks like we're on the same page though.
#28
04-08-2008, 05:54 PM
I think some of you guys may have found the limits of the TT in terms of consistently trackable hp without stuff always breaking. My car drives like new in terms of the shifting and feel.
I only put 3500 or so miles a year on the car, and while most of them are at the track, I rarely do a whole session, 6-8 laps is about as many as I've gotten, and about all you really can get at near 100% before your tires get too hot ot grease up or brake fade of some sort, or something else.
While I do think this is a great idea to explore, I think careful management of the car while at the track and elsewhere will give you a pretty long life out of your TT's tranny.
I would like to know how a tranny heat from say a 25 minute session on the track would compare to a long trip on the highway. If no gear lubrication is getting to 5th and 6th gear would that not magnify the heating issue?
I only put 3500 or so miles a year on the car, and while most of them are at the track, I rarely do a whole session, 6-8 laps is about as many as I've gotten, and about all you really can get at near 100% before your tires get too hot ot grease up or brake fade of some sort, or something else.
While I do think this is a great idea to explore, I think careful management of the car while at the track and elsewhere will give you a pretty long life out of your TT's tranny.
I would like to know how a tranny heat from say a 25 minute session on the track would compare to a long trip on the highway. If no gear lubrication is getting to 5th and 6th gear would that not magnify the heating issue?
#29
04-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Hi Mike, We use clutchmasters and had great success, I run there ceramic set up. As for the trans cooler, I do not like the gt2/3 setup because it is a heat exchanger that uses the coolant from the motor that all ready is cooling the motor oil and motor! I would use a diff. oil pump and a air cooled core. The oil temp should stay above 212 deg to boil off any moisture. As for the gears in the tranny I was told that the only differance was that the lay shaft on the gt2 had no drive for the front wheels. All the gear ratios are the same. The Gt3 has a 43:20 vs 43:21 of the TT/2 second gear. First and second are part of the input shaft and the rest can be change out eazy. However there are many motorsport parts for the TT/2/3 trannys. I have bin there and done that! And the motor sports parts are very hard to get. Thats if they even know the part numbers.........
Tim
Tim
#30
04-08-2008, 07:17 PM
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Great thread...anyone know ways while on track to protect the car...lower revs......fewer shifts....etc....It seems to me that there is precious little one can do....save drive off the session early.
I drove 7 hours at a good 6th gear pace to and from VIR....what does that do to the tranny......
What kills me is that I bet I could go onto a honda site and get the whole lot of parts needed in anodized anycolor and walk for 300 dollars....just a guess. Not saying that is wise or such, but a heat sink is a heat sink....
Where would you put it to: avoid being hit and get enough air.....
I drove 7 hours at a good 6th gear pace to and from VIR....what does that do to the tranny......
What kills me is that I bet I could go onto a honda site and get the whole lot of parts needed in anodized anycolor and walk for 300 dollars....just a guess. Not saying that is wise or such, but a heat sink is a heat sink....
Where would you put it to: avoid being hit and get enough air.....