Are you killing your tranny while tracking???
#32
04-08-2008, 07:22 PM
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Mike,
I'm not sure if this info is entirely accurate. My admittedly freshman understanding is that you can bolt a GT2 tranny into a TT and have AWD active and functioning. The main difference is that the GT2 has the cooler and pump required to flow the fluid through the cooler. There is also some discussion that possibly the X50 cars came with the upgraded syncros from a GT2, hence the "upgraded transmission" claim in the X50 package description.
I'm not sure if this info is entirely accurate. My admittedly freshman understanding is that you can bolt a GT2 tranny into a TT and have AWD active and functioning. The main difference is that the GT2 has the cooler and pump required to flow the fluid through the cooler. There is also some discussion that possibly the X50 cars came with the upgraded syncros from a GT2, hence the "upgraded transmission" claim in the X50 package description.
What has been relayed to me is that the gearing in the Turbo is not the gearing that is in the GT2/GT3 and that there is a good reason that the GT2/3 have the tranny coolers.
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
Think about it guys... This car is a LOT heavier than the GT2 and has inferior gears... And no cooler. What both Kevin at UMW and Robert at Lufteknic are saying makes a lot of sense.
With regards to the clutch issue/solution, We're going with some Clutchmaster modified OEM based parts, per Kevin's guidance.
Mike
#34
04-08-2008, 10:23 PM
, that the GT2 tranny does not have the output shaft for the front differential. I was recently shown a GT3 Cup tranny that had a different cover over the forward part of the transmission, with no output shaft.
#35
04-09-2008, 04:17 AM
Actually we're going with the kevlar material on our clutch disc as well, and I believe they sent the first clutch (the organic GT3) out for the mods... Sounds like we'll have identical setups on the clutch. I've got so many parts involved in a swap that it gets confussing which clutch and which PP they're using at what failure point.
Mike
Mike
That's the way I'm going too. Sachs 999 with clutchmasters special sauce (although I'll probably go organic GT2 or GT3 disc instead of ceramic). With that much clamping force, the organic disc should hold. Probably won't grab as hard or live as long as a ceramic, but this is mainly a street car for me, so I'm cool with that.
For a second, I thought you found some new Porsche OEM pressure plate + clutchmasters treatment and you got me curious. Looks like we're on the same page though.
For a second, I thought you found some new Porsche OEM pressure plate + clutchmasters treatment and you got me curious. Looks like we're on the same page though.
#36
04-09-2008, 08:08 AM
Actually we're going with the kevlar material on our clutch disc as well, and I believe they sent the first clutch (the organic GT3) out for the mods... Sounds like we'll have identical setups on the clutch. I've got so many parts involved in a swap that it gets confussing which clutch and which PP they're using at what failure point.
Mike
Mike
#37
04-10-2008, 05:34 PM
I think the stock or X50 intercoolers aren't going to be sufficient come summer and high humidity. We'll see... If I keep this car, a pair of Blown6 intercoolers will be on the short list...
Mike
Mike
#38
05-18-2008, 06:02 PM
In the wake of Tom Kerr's recent ring and pinion failure, I revive this thread...
There are a number of you guys who track your cars and are cooking your trannies... The slicks, the added HP, and the extended intervals running sessions on the track...
My point in being chicken little crying "the sky is falling" is to yet again point out that we really need to think about addressing this issue, or we're all going to suffer broken ring/pinions and other driveline failures.
Mike
There are a number of you guys who track your cars and are cooking your trannies... The slicks, the added HP, and the extended intervals running sessions on the track...
My point in being chicken little crying "the sky is falling" is to yet again point out that we really need to think about addressing this issue, or we're all going to suffer broken ring/pinions and other driveline failures.
Mike
#39
05-18-2008, 07:34 PM
Mike to put things in perspective so far. I have a full race clutch package and it works fine. the sachs upgrade alot of us used initially is no good for 500+ hp. that was lesson one.
ok lesson two was I blew a few syncros, on this I say rev match as best you can, change fluid often and its going to happen. remember we run our cars like race cars and want them to have the maintance requirements of a street car. not very realistic.
trannies need opened and spruced up from time to time that is it.
as for the R and P. my car is SIX years old. instead of re-inventing the wheel and panicing cause my R+P finally went. I believe it was wear and tear from 5 years of track driving in a car with 500+ hp and 335 mm wide R compound tires.
lesson three, I am not sure if it is heat vs actual wear and tear.
yes I would like a tranny cooler and yes I will try the above set up if Viper Bob can do it. No I will not loose sleep over it if he cant.
GT2 R+P on its way from Germany, let you know.
bottom line, dont panic cause stuff actually does wear out vs fail.
I wouldnt trade my current car for any other and have not gone this far to sell or bail. Yes I want to race Cup cars but my DE and instructor car will stay the TT, and I will still put it up against any comers (as long as their car is also 6 years old)
tom
ok lesson two was I blew a few syncros, on this I say rev match as best you can, change fluid often and its going to happen. remember we run our cars like race cars and want them to have the maintance requirements of a street car. not very realistic.
trannies need opened and spruced up from time to time that is it.
as for the R and P. my car is SIX years old. instead of re-inventing the wheel and panicing cause my R+P finally went. I believe it was wear and tear from 5 years of track driving in a car with 500+ hp and 335 mm wide R compound tires.
lesson three, I am not sure if it is heat vs actual wear and tear.
yes I would like a tranny cooler and yes I will try the above set up if Viper Bob can do it. No I will not loose sleep over it if he cant.
GT2 R+P on its way from Germany, let you know.
bottom line, dont panic cause stuff actually does wear out vs fail.
I wouldnt trade my current car for any other and have not gone this far to sell or bail. Yes I want to race Cup cars but my DE and instructor car will stay the TT, and I will still put it up against any comers (as long as their car is also 6 years old)
tom
#40
05-18-2008, 07:57 PM
I agree not to panic, tom had 10-15k miles on the car when the motor went and probably another couple grand before there were any problems with the Tranny. In that period of time, and this had to have just happened recently as the signs were only there recently (metal shavings). So it's probably more likely that whatever caused the front driveshaft to fail had something to do with the R and P or something of the like. This was not gradual, it was sudden.
But to have had as many miles before any signs of that only proves that the car was doing just fine with all the track miles that Tom had put on the car.
Not to say that having a tranny cooler wouldnt help, but it's not a fullproof solution as we dont know the cause of the problem to begin with. And it's not exactly a bolt on modification.
But to have had as many miles before any signs of that only proves that the car was doing just fine with all the track miles that Tom had put on the car.
Not to say that having a tranny cooler wouldnt help, but it's not a fullproof solution as we dont know the cause of the problem to begin with. And it's not exactly a bolt on modification.
#41
05-19-2008, 04:32 AM
Guys there is a motive for my restarting this thread...
I'm hoping others will post their pics as to what they've done. I plan to install a cooler over the summer. I'll be contacting Kevin to get a front nosecone to tap into.
Tom, I think the first issue is the clutch. Once you got the right clutch in the car to handle the power, it was to late. With the new GT2R+P, you'll be in better shape. You're correct that things break on these cars, due to the intended use. But installing a cooler will help considerably.
I also think the larger slick is probably contributing to the wear, and likely accelerating it. Matching revs saved all the motorcycles I tracked over the years, along with a couple of older track cars with performance gear boxes. It's a lot easier to match revs with the lighter flywheel/clutch setup, and I know that now with my clutch issues resolved, I'm making better progress shifting. I do plan to get rid of my B&M shifter and swap it for the Porsche SSK. More precise shifting should help keep friction levels down, and hopefully stave off heat soaking the fluid. I know when I have new fluid in the tranny the car shifts like new... At the end of the second 3 day weekend at the track, it's not shifting nearly as well. That tells me it's a heat soak issue with the fluid. That's also what my mechanic and Kevin at UMW have stated.
Keep us posted on what Viperbob does for you... You're fortunate to have him so close for support.
Mike
I'm hoping others will post their pics as to what they've done. I plan to install a cooler over the summer. I'll be contacting Kevin to get a front nosecone to tap into.
Tom, I think the first issue is the clutch. Once you got the right clutch in the car to handle the power, it was to late. With the new GT2R+P, you'll be in better shape. You're correct that things break on these cars, due to the intended use. But installing a cooler will help considerably.
I also think the larger slick is probably contributing to the wear, and likely accelerating it. Matching revs saved all the motorcycles I tracked over the years, along with a couple of older track cars with performance gear boxes. It's a lot easier to match revs with the lighter flywheel/clutch setup, and I know that now with my clutch issues resolved, I'm making better progress shifting. I do plan to get rid of my B&M shifter and swap it for the Porsche SSK. More precise shifting should help keep friction levels down, and hopefully stave off heat soaking the fluid. I know when I have new fluid in the tranny the car shifts like new... At the end of the second 3 day weekend at the track, it's not shifting nearly as well. That tells me it's a heat soak issue with the fluid. That's also what my mechanic and Kevin at UMW have stated.
Keep us posted on what Viperbob does for you... You're fortunate to have him so close for support.
Mike
#42
06-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Guess I am about a year behind y'all. My Transmission was taken apart this week and found that is in serious need of rebuild, especially 2,3 and 5 gear. Mike is 100% correct that 5 and 6 do not get as much fluid. My tech recommends the pump, cooler and maybe even a LSD, although I have no idea how an LSD would benefit lube/cooling.
Since I will be rebuilding my box, any lessons learned or "I wish I would have done this or that" while you were rebuilding? I am seriously considering regearing 1s and 2nd and maybe some top speed as well, but would like to hear from those who have been there/done that.
An ideal situation would be to match the 1 gear of the Z06, quicker 60-130 and enought top speed to easily break 200.
//Anders
Since I will be rebuilding my box, any lessons learned or "I wish I would have done this or that" while you were rebuilding? I am seriously considering regearing 1s and 2nd and maybe some top speed as well, but would like to hear from those who have been there/done that.
An ideal situation would be to match the 1 gear of the Z06, quicker 60-130 and enought top speed to easily break 200.
//Anders
What both have claimed is that the fluid doesn't reach the 5th, 6th, and reverse gears. This causes problems over time, especially in 30 minute sessions we see at places like VIR and Road Atlanta.
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
There are two solutions, Either tap and fit your own fittings into the tranny, get a pump and cooler plumbed in, or go the GT2 hardware route, where there is a spraybar internal that helps spray coolant back across the whole internal gear driveline on the tranny.
It was described to me that the heat that builds in those three gears acts as a heatsink for the rest of the tranny. Flushing fluid isn't a bad idea, as tranny fluid is cheap and easy to swap... But I'm thinking long term...Based on the weight, and other issues, Maybe it's time to think about a GT2...
Mike
#45
06-05-2009, 06:00 PM
