It's going.. raining some EVT700s, cats, dogs, GT700s and a GT3 or so around here. I need a bigger boat The exhaust side on these is pretty neat and a lot more efficient than the 1st, 2nd gen turbos....

 

This has nothing to do with Mike or his integrityI can only imagine reading this thread later and thinking wow this guy had Proto turbos and went another route and saw improvement. Just clarifying for posterity

As I said the only thing that matters is that Mike is happy.

Cheers

 

Ok read ya' loud and clear... I've seen Mike complain about Protomotive either not here or in person I think he wanted something different is all.

 

Also for posterity, there's really no such thing as a "Proto" or an "EPL" hybrid KKK/Mitsubishi turbo. They all come off the same bench and get worked on at the same shop. Then they get shipped to the tuner that ordered them and re-branded as appropriate. I've spoken at length with the guy who most likely hand built both sets of turbos that Mike had in his posession and in his opinion, neither is "better" or "worse". They're just different tubos for different applications.

All things being equal, it's a fact that, compared to one another, a K24/18g is capable of more top end and that a K16/16g is capable of spooling faster. That's just a simple matter of the characteristics of a K16 vs K24 turbine and hot housing. The only real question is how much more top end and how much faster?

I have my own opinion based on data that I've seen, but I've seen what happens when I try to discuss comparing dyno plots. I'm slowly learning to keep my opinions to myself.

 

Eclou,
Thanks for posting the compressor maps for the three turbos. But since the maps are Greek to me, can you give a short explanation of what they mean. I'm a product of the Pasadena School District. Thanks.

 

Onetime,

good primer here:

http://www.ztechz.net/id6.html

 

Michael,

You have to get that car to a track or head to head with some other tunes, so that we can all know the real world results. This is going to be real interesting. I am especially interested in seeing it go against a K16/24 car and a K24/18G car. My prediction is the K16/24 will be very close and the K24/18G will walk away. My reason for giving the edge to the 24/18G is that even though they make similar peak HP on paper at some point, the larger 18G wheel is going to provide more pull up top and when you are driving aggressively and you redline, then shift and redline again, and again, etc. - any potential quick spool characteristics are rendered useless, as you are beyond that area and the upper end charactristics of the turbo come into play, which is where the 18G shines. This is based on going from 16/24's to 24/18G's, seeing the ET and trap improvements and feeling a sustained stong pull, where the smaller turbos fell off. Just my guess...Any idea when we will know...or in other words, any comparison runs coming up soon?

 

Matt,
I just want to pass along my congratulations to you and your quest to spread the word. Sorry for any perceived ill will towards this mission. Good luck, and hope that you lay down some wicked numbers in the 60-130!
Ryan

 

There is only one shop and one bench for all hybrid turbos? Are you certain of this?

 

No, and that's not what I said, I said one shop and one bench for all KKK/Mitsubishi hybrids. (I won't lambast you on reading comprehension though). As far as I know, that is correct. I definitely know Proto and EPL get their K16/16g and K24/18gs from the same place.

P.S. I know, and I've never contested, that Kevin hand makes some fantastic hybrid turbos.

 

Ryan,
That's big of you. No ill will on my end either. If we didn't care so much about our silly powerful cars, we wouldn't get so heated over silly things. Good luck to you too. Stay tuned for 60-130.

 

I completely agree with your assessment. My only chance against a 24/18g on the top end is if, on stock fueling and 93 octane, it is limited to a similar power level because the AFRs would lean out too much or the injectors would be overclocked if it went further. At 490 rwhp I was at 95% injector duty cycle on the stock injectors. Whether or not the bigger turbo is capable of more horse, if you're out of fuel, you're out of fuel.

I have a run day planned with Alan (str8blst)'s Proto 650 (24/18g w/ EBC) and Hung (HLY)'s Proto K16/16g. We'll run our cars on an independent MAHA dyno and then do some street pulls. I would LOVE for a K16/24 to join us. Anyone interested?

First though I desparately need a clutch. Tim from RPM should be calling me (hopefully today) to let me know when my cutsom kit comes in from Clutchmasters (he ordered it on Friday). Hopefully I drop the car off tomorrow, pick it up on Monday, get 500 break in miles under my belt, then up to Tony to finish the dyno tune, then we're ready for some 60-130. Trust me, take how anxious all of you are for data, multiply it by 35, and that's how anxious I am to finally run the car for all it's worth.

-Michael

 

I speak fluent Greek and they still give me a headache.

The 3rd grade explanation (and this is WAY over simplified) is that boost is on the left (and it includes atmospheric, so take out 1 bar) and the circles are basically bands where the turbos will efficiently flow the amount of air noted on the bottom axis. The island in the middle is the sweet spot (best flow with least heat soak). Then you have to overlay different RPM bands to see where you'd be in each range, but we'd be into the 4th grade explanation if we got that far.

 

I have looked into getting a hybrid turbo done for a 993tt and from my research it seems that just about anyone can do it. The 16G wheel will fit in the K16 compressor housing with some clearancing. Blouch, Majestic, and Texas Turbos have all done this in the past, as many import tuners use similar tactics

 

Passive aggressive I have no difficulty comprehending your comments. I still think you are incorrect on your statement that all KKK/Mitsubishi hybrids are made on one bench in one shop (did I get that right?) Please refrain from such statements unless you actually know this. It is certainly OK to state it as your opinion, but the context was: