I may be wrong, but there seems to be a little in house fighting going on between GIAC and PES/EVO. They are definitely not the same. I don't know who if anyone owns the rights to any "Stage" name. I do believe the only thing GIAC has to do with Stage is suppling their ECU programs. Anyone can make a program. GIAC most definitely was not the first to use a program making 600 hp or 700 hp for that matter. Note the GIAC ads in Excellence Magazine. About one year ago I believe the GIAC ads listed AWE Tuning, Dyno Spot Racing, EVO Motorsports, PES, Performance Plus Auto and Rennsport Systems as "full service GIAC dealers."

A short time later Imagine Auto appeared on the ad and then their name disappeared. It has not returned since under the GIAC ad. A couple months later PES and EVO took out an ad which was vague but touted systems up to 700 hp. They list authorized dealers as PES, EVO, Danbury Porsche and Imagine Auto.

There appears to be a slight conflict somewhere. My guess is GIAC is GIAC and probably doesn't deal with anything but tuning ECU's. It appears from the PES/EVO ad that the "Stage" or maybe Stage IV and V may be their advertisement property.

Maybe Todd from EVO might want to clear this up.

 

mike, i understand you have some vested business interest here, i am just calling it like i see it. Obviously i have never dealt with you and to be honest i'm not sure what you do or sell so this is definitely not directed to you. I am deliberately leaving shop names out of this because frankly i do not have enough information to truly attack shops and reputations over this. However, i was not born yesterday and i realize when shady dealings are going down. I know how much time stephen/todd/colin put into this product and hate to see their business suffer because of unfair competition.

I am a capitalist through and through and love to see healthy competition but to the best of my understanding that is not what is going on here. at the very least i HATE when a shop asks how much their customer bought something from one of their competitors for. This, in the first place, is bad business. That is why my standard answer is "you're welcome to call (insert vendor) and find out from them".

My post is merely a heads up. Of course there are reputable people other than these three. i just hope people are careful with who they deal with and find out what's going on before they unknowingly support bad business.

 

Bottom line, Stage 4 was developed by EVO and GIAC over 2 years ago. Stage 1-3 was also developed with GIAC on an EVO 996TT car over 2 years ago. The entire GIAC dealer network can sell stage 1, 2 and 3. There are only a select number of resellers that are able to sell the EVO stage 4 and EVO Stage 4 GT. If other, non authorized dealers are marketing and selling a "stage 4" and not obtaining it from an authorized source, then it may not be a true EVO Stage 4 600 hp upgrade and probably a stage 3.

This has been an issue and has already been addressed. I think that the 996TT community gets the point and there is no need for speculation. It is not an "error" in the GIAC network. When a GIAC dealer spends time and money to develop a proprietary kit, it is an exclusive kit to that company. Hopefully it is a little clearer now.

 

Chad,

1) Imagine auto was never in a GIAC ad. They have just been added to the GIAC website.

2) You are correct in that GIAC only provides software.

3) EVO/PES/Imagine Auto are performance partners and work collectively to bring you the finest upgrades and customer service for the 996TT. "3 heads are better than one"

Hope this clears the confusion

 

Todd,

I took delivery of my 2001 996tt in July of 2001. I had Renntech in Florida do my first mods. I used your EVO exhaust at the time. I had talked to you and you people and if memory serves me correctly, the most power you attained and offered to the public at that time was somewhere around 530 flywheel hp. I did not attain 600 flywheel hp until around January 2002 and I do not recall EVO being in the 600 flywheel hp club at that time.

 

I forgot this part No house-fighting going on here. Yes we do own the rights to EVO 600 HP Stage 4. Not everyone can make a program. There is one head making programs and that is Garrett. He is the only one supplying programs for us and anyone cannot make programs on their own. When we build a car, i.e. EVO Stage 4 GT, we built the components, turbos, headers exhaust etc, etc. We will then will transport that car to the GIAC facility in Irvine to test and tune the car on the GIAC 4wd Mustang DYNO. I will work hand in hand with Garrett to make the necessary changes to tune the car to achieve our power goals. This is why we cannot tune every car for every upgrade under the sun. We create hardware packages based upon our power requirements and expertise and rely on GIAC to supply the software based upon our specifications.

Once the tuning and programming is completed, it is our job to put test miles on the car to determine the safety of the program, drive ability, reliability etc. before we bring the kit to market. In addition, we will put our systems through rigorous testing in the Phoenix 118 degree climate on 91-octane fuel to ensure that they will be safe no matter where we send them. I truly believe this a huge advantage for us. If we were doing our endurance testing in lets say, Maine there would be no way for us to be 110% confident our power package would live and work without problems in say Texas. EVO does alot of business in the Middle East where the climate is similar to ours here in Phoenix. I am confident that our upgrades will last even in the most grueling areas of the world.

Sorry to get off topic here, but these are the reasons that each GIAC dealer operates in their own way. Some dealers only deal with a local market and don’t have to tune for 118 degrees. Our market is global therefore I need to tune with this in mind, thus making our product different and proprietary based upon our tuning methods, global market and hardware.

 

It was actually 560 HP (based upon your power calculations) and we were in the testing phases of our 600 HP system at that time. Back then I was not active on the boards, so I couldn’t have been apart of the "600 HP club". I can give you the exact date on Tuesday when I get back to the office.

 

Todd,

I apologize. You are correct. I went back and looked. It was Velocity Tuning that disappeared.

Regarding the 600 hp club. I did not get my information from the boards. I got it from you. I would have bought it from you at the time if it was available. The reason I went on my own is it was not available from you at the time or anyone else. Do you remember our conversation where I complained about the backpressure of your exhaust (which I had on my car). You told me they were not designed to flow in excess of 550 hp. We were talking flywheel hp at the time. You may have been working on something, but it was not available to the public. Yet everything was somewhat secret in the old days, in addition to being overpriced (refering to many German kits). This is exactly why I have done everything in my power to share everything I have learned about the 996tt. I know it irks many tuners.

Regarding tuning a chip, it costs me $130.00 plus sending my dyno run to a tuner to have my chip modified. Yes, it would be better if I did it right on the dyno. Sometimes I have. The point is it is no longer rocket science. Modify the afr's in the particular rpm ranges and bingo. If you are dealing with the hot and/or high elevations, then go more conservative with the afr's. Is that why 12.2-1 sounds relatively familiar?

Please don't get me wrong. EVO has a great product at a good price to the consumer. In addition your turn around time is great. You do provide a great service to the 996tt community.

 

why is everybody writing a story? people are going to do/spend their money any way they want!!!!!!let's keep it at that...this board is to have fun,and learn new things...no more stories....just my .02 cents

 

andrew,

No stories, just a free education. If for a minute you think even 5% of the information you see on the boards today was available in 2001, then you are sadly mistaken.

 

You do not have to read all of the "stories" being written. You can simply choose to ignore these threads. I find this information to be invaluable and I am grateful that everyone is sharing it.

Greg A

 

Back to my original statement about how we build our packages. I will NOT sell a package that is in development. I remember our conversations back then. You are correct, we were not offering a 600 HP system then and we were secret about it. Secret because I did not want to release something until it was 110% tested.

You are correct again, our exhaust was built for our Stage 3 560 Hp system. If you notice, our 600 and 640 HP systems use different exhausts that have been tested to flow enough exhaust to support the power output. I did not need you to tell me or explain to me how our exhaust was built. Remember, I BUILT IT and tested it. I knew its capabilities and limitations.

$130 for chip tuning is excellent. What are they changing? There are hundreds of different ways to tune a chip and afr's are just the tip of a huge ice burg. I agree not rocket science but not a skill that most people can do.

I have to disagree with you on it being easy to tune in the hot climate. I will almost guarantee that your car on a dyno here in 118 degree weather on 91 octane fuel would not last long. In addition, would you "chance a $40K motor" to a tweak of a little more fuel here and there???? Would you be 100% sure? I have to be 110% sure, its my business and reputation on the line.

I enjoy your opinion and appreciate your kind words about EVO and our products. take care

 

Todd,

By now you know I just love to disagree. You are correct in one sense. At 682 rwhp my car would not last very long in 118 degree weather. For that matter I don't believe it would last many laps around a track using full power. Come to think of it, my tests have shown, around a track, much more than 500 rwhp really doesn't buy you a whole lot more. On the 516 rwhp mode, using 1 bar I can drive around Lake Tahoe in 100 degree weather no problem. This is on 91 octane pump gas. Don't forget, I have four modes of power and can run on different grades of fuel. I could not run the other three modes in those conditions or on 91 octane.

One hundred degrees at 6300 foot elevation is far tougher on a motor than 118 degrees at approx. sea level.

 

I would disagree with your last sentence....think about it

 

Yeah, you are right. You will make far less hp because of less oxygen. Not as apt to lean out as easily.