996 Turbo Brake Information - DIY and Sorting truth from Fiction!
#286
03-14-2009, 11:48 AM
If I "did it all over agian" with the 996TT, here is what the choices would be, carved in stone 100%:
NO track use or very lite & occasional use: All OEM except fluid.
HARD, very experienced track use: GT3 front calipers and rotors, hands down THE choice. Pagid Yellow front and Black rear. Keep the rear stock re calipers and rotors!
Moderate track use: Keep what you have. For most, the OEM stuff is all you need.
Get cooling to the brakes, fresh good stuff for fluid and Pagid Yellows.
As Mike said this is great stuff. Thanks to C.O'B at www.Rennstore.com for all his help.
It saved me a bit of money and could save you a TON.
Why waste the $$$$ when you don't need to -
NO track use or very lite & occasional use: All OEM except fluid.
HARD, very experienced track use: GT3 front calipers and rotors, hands down THE choice. Pagid Yellow front and Black rear. Keep the rear stock re calipers and rotors!
Moderate track use: Keep what you have. For most, the OEM stuff is all you need.
Get cooling to the brakes, fresh good stuff for fluid and Pagid Yellows.
As Mike said this is great stuff. Thanks to C.O'B at www.Rennstore.com for all his help.
It saved me a bit of money and could save you a TON.
Why waste the $$$$ when you don't need to -
#287
03-14-2009, 12:51 PM
No, what make blacks better is easier brake modulation. Because they bite better initially, they are easy to manage instead of having to stand on the brakes with the yellows. If you're running a 3 hour enduro, then maybe yellows, but many seem to agree for anything short of an enduro, the blacks are better. And especially for heavier cars, they can handle the heat better and aren't as sensitive.
The blacks are awesome!!!!
There is a thread about PFC's on Rennlist and several racers agree that the yellows aren't great despite the hype. I never said anything because I thought it was just me, but now that I know lots of people have had the same experience, I'm a believer.
The blacks are awesome!!!!
There is a thread about PFC's on Rennlist and several racers agree that the yellows aren't great despite the hype. I never said anything because I thought it was just me, but now that I know lots of people have had the same experience, I'm a believer.
#288
03-14-2009, 12:54 PM
But I will say that the yellows last substantially longer, so if you are not an aggressive driver and demands the most from your brakes, then Yellows may be fine. Otherwise, you need a very light car and to be running for several hours for the yellows to be more beneficial.
Again, some opinions may differ, but this is my experience, and several others.
Again, some opinions may differ, but this is my experience, and several others.
#289
03-14-2009, 04:55 PM
If I "did it all over agian" with the 996TT, here is what the choices would be, carved in stone 100%:
NO track use or very lite & occasional use: All OEM except fluid.
HARD, very experienced track use: GT3 front calipers and rotors, hands down THE choice. Pagid Yellow front and Black rear. Keep the rear stock re calipers and rotors!
Moderate track use: Keep what you have. For most, the OEM stuff is all you need.
Get cooling to the brakes, fresh good stuff for fluid and Pagid Yellows.
As Mike said this is great stuff. Thanks to C.O'B at www.Rennstore.com for all his help.
It saved me a bit of money and could save you a TON.
Why waste the $$$$ when you don't need to -
NO track use or very lite & occasional use: All OEM except fluid.
HARD, very experienced track use: GT3 front calipers and rotors, hands down THE choice. Pagid Yellow front and Black rear. Keep the rear stock re calipers and rotors!
Moderate track use: Keep what you have. For most, the OEM stuff is all you need.
Get cooling to the brakes, fresh good stuff for fluid and Pagid Yellows.
As Mike said this is great stuff. Thanks to C.O'B at www.Rennstore.com for all his help.
It saved me a bit of money and could save you a TON.
Why waste the $$$$ when you don't need to -
Thanks!
#291
03-15-2009, 10:19 AM
Now if I could just see a GT3 rotor in that wheel by someone who shimmed the 996tt caliper up to use it with that rotor.
Thanks guys!
#292
03-15-2009, 10:45 AM
Actually, if anybody has a 996tt OEM wheel sitting in their garage and can measure the inner wheel opening diameter, that would be awesome!
The link I posted to the FBody racing site has been updated with some new info and pic/comparisons of the 996tt OEM caliper vs the GT3 stuff....take a peek if interested.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.p...opic=12885&hl=
Thanks guys!
The link I posted to the FBody racing site has been updated with some new info and pic/comparisons of the 996tt OEM caliper vs the GT3 stuff....take a peek if interested.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.p...opic=12885&hl=
Thanks guys!
#293
03-15-2009, 06:11 PM
That thread on Rennlist shows a bunch of absolute idiots who ran the Pagid Yellow pads WAAAAAAY below what is reasonable - about to the backing plate.
Gee why da pads luk reely bad huh?
Unbelievable.
I agree the Blacks are like crack - the grip is ADDICTIVE
Gee why da pads luk reely bad huh?
Unbelievable.
I agree the Blacks are like crack - the grip is ADDICTIVE
#294
03-15-2009, 06:34 PM
If you are running the pads until they are that low you still had to start off with a new pad to get that far and conclusions about your impressions of the pads will be drawn long before you get to the end.
I still had a half pad left when I trashed the yellows. They were not good at all for me, at least on tracks that are hard on the brakes. You have to put far more effort into the yellows to stop IMO, and more pedal = quicker to get softer pedal.
I still had a half pad left when I trashed the yellows. They were not good at all for me, at least on tracks that are hard on the brakes. You have to put far more effort into the yellows to stop IMO, and more pedal = quicker to get softer pedal.
#296
03-16-2009, 06:26 AM
Mike, I realize that opinions and driving styles are always going to vary, which is why I say it's my opinion. Lots of people love the yellows, and I had already planned on going back to blacks when I saw that several people had similar experiences with the yellows that I had.
When it comes to brake pads, one size does not fit all. The only thing I can say for sure is that Yellows last longer than Blacks and that Blacks are grippier on initial bite which is the way they are designed and most everyone will agree.
Of course that really depends on your braking style. I'm actually a brake earlier and longer but with less pedal type of guy than a late braker. It creates less stress and heat on the brakes, especially with a heavier car. The blacks loved this style, but the yellows always wanted more pedal from me so I didn't feel like I had the control I wanted. I feel the stock pedal feel on the 996 TT is adequate, but not great in terms of modulation, still feels indirect and a bit soft. IMO the blacks help to alleviate that somewhat because they grip better and you can use less pedal instead of having to stand on the brakes to get max stopping power.
When it comes to brake pads, one size does not fit all. The only thing I can say for sure is that Yellows last longer than Blacks and that Blacks are grippier on initial bite which is the way they are designed and most everyone will agree.
Of course that really depends on your braking style. I'm actually a brake earlier and longer but with less pedal type of guy than a late braker. It creates less stress and heat on the brakes, especially with a heavier car. The blacks loved this style, but the yellows always wanted more pedal from me so I didn't feel like I had the control I wanted. I feel the stock pedal feel on the 996 TT is adequate, but not great in terms of modulation, still feels indirect and a bit soft. IMO the blacks help to alleviate that somewhat because they grip better and you can use less pedal instead of having to stand on the brakes to get max stopping power.
#297
03-16-2009, 06:43 AM
This creates smooth transition from brake to gas in the car as well and helps with speed. It also prevent overbraking. I like to go in just a tad too hot (when it's safe) every now and then just to make sure I'm not overbraking for any turn. That's where most people lose time because they stand on the brakes and unsettled the car as opposed to braking smoothly into and accelerating smoothly out of the corner. You end up oveslowing because the car feels like it will fly off the track if you turn the wheel so you wait to get the car under control before turning and have consequently lost lots of time. Braking should feel almost effortless in order to achieve the best results especially at the high speed tracks in the US like VIR and Road Atlanta and Sebring.
Your top speed on straights will decrease as well using this method, but I'll bet you your times go down. Most of us, especially in Turbos are happy to say that we got 170 mph on a straight, but then we get killed by other cars in the braking zone because our car is too heavy to stop from those speeds under very heaving braking. Imagine how much more pressure there is on our brakes with 1000 lbs more than a race car and not REAL racing brakes but going the same speeds on the straights. It's not fair to our brakes, or our suspension, because our springs are too soft to handle that kind of weight with those kind of loads.
For example at Road Atlanta I use to go on about getting 170 mph on the back straight, but I was always on edge trying to get the car settled to make the turn for 10a. Using this method I got from an instructor and very fast driver I started braking earlier and smoother and gained over 1 second in 10a and 10b despite my speed on the straight going down to 158-160.
Your top speed on straights will decrease as well using this method, but I'll bet you your times go down. Most of us, especially in Turbos are happy to say that we got 170 mph on a straight, but then we get killed by other cars in the braking zone because our car is too heavy to stop from those speeds under very heaving braking. Imagine how much more pressure there is on our brakes with 1000 lbs more than a race car and not REAL racing brakes but going the same speeds on the straights. It's not fair to our brakes, or our suspension, because our springs are too soft to handle that kind of weight with those kind of loads.
For example at Road Atlanta I use to go on about getting 170 mph on the back straight, but I was always on edge trying to get the car settled to make the turn for 10a. Using this method I got from an instructor and very fast driver I started braking earlier and smoother and gained over 1 second in 10a and 10b despite my speed on the straight going down to 158-160.
#298
03-16-2009, 10:42 AM
Are the black pads ok for use in stock 996tt brakes though or are you using gt3 front setup? I'd rate myself as a strong intermediate and I was hoping to get away with using the stock brakes, pagid pads and upgraded cooling.
#299
03-16-2009, 12:17 PM
Jeff, yes they will work just fine. What I would be careful of is rotor wear though, I used to get cracks in the stock 330 mm rotors in one day using pagid oranges, which I have heard to be even harder on rotors than any other pagids. I can't say for sure how the blacks will wear on the 4 piston setup because I haven't tried it in that fashion. My first set of blacks was used on 6 pistons.
But your setup idea is just fine. Make sure you vent the front though and run something like motul or AP racing with boiling temp in the 600's or higher. Also depends on your local tracks and your braking style, but make sure you get the best fluid above all.
You short list should be:
Motul/AP Racing or other 600* rated fluid
Custom brake ducting or at the least GT3 RS lower brake ducts
Steel Braded Lines
That should assure you of no brake failure and little to no fade with the front ducts expecially if combined with the lower ducts too.
But your setup idea is just fine. Make sure you vent the front though and run something like motul or AP racing with boiling temp in the 600's or higher. Also depends on your local tracks and your braking style, but make sure you get the best fluid above all.
You short list should be:
Motul/AP Racing or other 600* rated fluid
Custom brake ducting or at the least GT3 RS lower brake ducts
Steel Braded Lines
That should assure you of no brake failure and little to no fade with the front ducts expecially if combined with the lower ducts too.