8 zillion dollars

 

No, with the dollar in the tank, 12 zillion.

 

The water cooled race cars didn't make 1200 hp at the wheels.And no I am not trying to be an *** ......it was a serious ?I am trying to keep it simple because I really don't think you understand the fundamental differences between the motors.

 

They probably make half of that at best but weigh 2200 lbs which makes it as fast as a 1000 hp car ...

Like I said before... It will take a built 3.6 motor running about 2 bar on 35r or so... and I dont see anyone "customer" taking a chance on such a design....
You might as well spend the money on loosing weight and the same end result can be achieved- if you going to race it...
markski

 

not true I believe the owner of Gruppe-M in Japan has a 996tt worth speaking about. Any one care to share about this car. Plus I am trying for this desired number.


S

 

I do understand the physical differences in these motors but I guess what I am not understanding is how these differences which in the newer motors should be advantages are in fact disadvantages if they really are. How does having a water cooled head, which increases heat transfer away from the head, the most crucial part of power making, make it worse? This is the reverse of any design theory. The better the heat transfer, the more power. So it is the ideology of the design that has me confused I guess.

 

IIRC the water jackets inherently weaken the design of the heads, causing flex and rupture points when running high boost.

 

I dont know anything about that car...
Suman, I will give you my sincere opinion... and thats after 3 years of dealing with my car... not to mention taking into consideration all other 800rwhp cars having issues.... I really wish you the best... but dont be dissapointed when your dreams do not come true...
You see, tuners will tell you anything you want to hear... at least most will... But once they have car ... it becomes another story....
We have problems holding down 850 rwhp at 1.5 bars let alone 1000 rwhp.... Dont be like the rest of us and some others who sold and or gave up on the build outs becasue it just became senseless...
If I were you I would do a 1.5 bar tune with some 35rs, O ring the heads... some headwork....then makes sure they stay on.... and call it a day...
My car trapped 149+ mph recently at 1.3 bars ... and thats with a healthy car for the first time.... ( besides the clutch that is)... what else do you want to know...
good luck,
mark

 

Oh, I don't kow.... the 935/78 "moby dick" had a 3.2l water cooled head engine and reputedly produced between 750 and 950 crank hp in 1978!!

more power needed is the reason why they went to the water cooled head n the first place.
not that far from todays power levels, 30 years ago?!?!?

So again, how does the air cooled head produce more power than the water cooled head which was brought on to make more power than the air cooled head and in theory should make more power as lower temperatures lower your detonation potential.

 

I agree and I know a tuner that was making 750 HP crank 20 years ago... no big deal.... but we are talking about 1000 rwhp on a aluminum block where the studs back out.... all due to boost...
So we have a wall we all hit in the 996TTs ... and thats about 900 rwhp at about 1.5 to 1.6 bars.... where every .1 bars of boost is good for about 30 rwhp....
Like I said, give me $30K and Ill go to the dyno tomorrow and show everyone dyno sheet with 1000 rwhp... No big deal...

 

When you pressurise the cylinder past a certain point (like 1.8 bar) the heads start to "lift" and when they have coolant running through them it gets in the cumbustion chamber .Since water(or coolant) does not compress you end up with lots of bent parts that make great(expensive) paper weights.It may happen someday but not right now IMO.

 

ok, this makes sense and I understand the coolant getting into the combustion chamber, but the heads begin to lift regardless of air or water cooling?

Lets say that at 1.8 bar the heads begin to lift, well at that point you have stretched or backed out the head studs and you will have lost it all regardless of water or air.

Someone brought up welding the block and heads to get more power earlier in this thread, well something along those lines was being done in the early days of the water cooled head race engine, so it is not a new idea to this engine and would work.

 

i'm tired.I will weld them on tomorrow.Here comes 1000 .

 

That's super impressive!

 

very impressive. how much does your car weigh?


lol, thanks for the discussion. Seriously though the watercooled heads of the 956 were welded to the cylinder barrels, maybe they anticipated huge Hp in these cars prior to regulations killing their offspring the 962.