when will we see 1000rwhp out of these hi HP porsches?
#392
12-07-2008, 02:32 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delawhere?
Age: 44
Posts: 3,725
Rep Power: 228 
#393
12-07-2008, 02:47 PM
Gramicci,
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
Last edited by cjv; 12-07-2008 at 03:11 PM.
#394
12-07-2008, 03:08 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delawhere?
Age: 44
Posts: 3,725
Rep Power: 228 
'scuse me, I need to pick my jaw up off the floor...
#395
12-07-2008, 03:24 PM
Gramicci,
The power will be all but useless with the exception of a roll. And then, it will still be mitigated due to loss of traction. The motor is designed to take the full 2.5 bar, but don't let that fool you. The price will be wear and tear ....... longevity.
When the reality of this all set in, we decided that we wanted it to be fast from let's say 3000 to 7000 rpm's. Yes, there is power to be had thru 9000 rpm's, but it is at a far slower rate. We tested more boost and didn't really like the results. We tested more bore displacement and got a broader hp band ...... but no real extra kick in to the lower to mid rpm range. We tried greater stroke and wow. The gained torque was mind boggling. Our reason for going to even more stroke.
The long and the short of it is this car will be extremely fast between 1.0 and 1.3 bar. It will also be extremely reliable with a better than average longevity in this boost range. Nothing to keep us from raise the bar above 1.3, other than maintance, down time costs and possibly the ability to stay alive.
The power will be all but useless with the exception of a roll. And then, it will still be mitigated due to loss of traction. The motor is designed to take the full 2.5 bar, but don't let that fool you. The price will be wear and tear ....... longevity.
When the reality of this all set in, we decided that we wanted it to be fast from let's say 3000 to 7000 rpm's. Yes, there is power to be had thru 9000 rpm's, but it is at a far slower rate. We tested more boost and didn't really like the results. We tested more bore displacement and got a broader hp band ...... but no real extra kick in to the lower to mid rpm range. We tried greater stroke and wow. The gained torque was mind boggling. Our reason for going to even more stroke.
The long and the short of it is this car will be extremely fast between 1.0 and 1.3 bar. It will also be extremely reliable with a better than average longevity in this boost range. Nothing to keep us from raise the bar above 1.3, other than maintance, down time costs and possibly the ability to stay alive.
Last edited by cjv; 12-07-2008 at 03:27 PM.
#396
12-07-2008, 03:46 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delawhere?
Age: 44
Posts: 3,725
Rep Power: 228
I sent a pm about this, but I was in a hurry and I think I worded it poorly. With that much power on tap, are you designing in a fail point in the drivetrain? Preferably something cheap and easy to replace? That way when something does break, you know what it is, it's a quick fix, and you would be able to plan for it and have spares on hand.
#397
12-07-2008, 04:14 PM
^^^
Then come see my car :-) Chris, you have driven my car and you know that my heads never lift! I have 6000 miles on it and was just at the Ferrari meet at uptown park. Dont ask how much boost I have reached... you will not believe if I told ya ;-)
Happy Holidays
Robert
Then come see my car :-) Chris, you have driven my car and you know that my heads never lift! I have 6000 miles on it and was just at the Ferrari meet at uptown park. Dont ask how much boost I have reached... you will not believe if I told ya ;-)
Happy Holidays
Robert
#398
12-07-2008, 04:19 PM
Chad,now this is something i would really like to see.......1000ft lbs(at the crank or wheels?) on one of these motors is really something and very hard to do,surely you have the data(dyno graph) you can share with us.Joe
#399
12-07-2008, 04:23 PM
I sent a pm about this, but I was in a hurry and I think I worded it poorly. With that much power on tap, are you designing in a fail point in the drivetrain? Preferably something cheap and easy to replace? That way when something does break, you know what it is, it's a quick fix, and you would be able to plan for it and have spares on hand.
The tranny has straight cut custom gears 1st thru 6th, steel syncro's, internal oil bar and external tranny cooler. The axles are single piece from EVO. The rims are Fiske 10.5 front/12.5 rear.
#400
12-07-2008, 04:49 PM
I have said they are engine dyno tests ....... so it would be at the crank. I hope you give me more credit than that.
Yes, the torque we are seeing is impossible with a 76.4 mm crank. It is also not possible by simply using pistons with a diameter greater than 100 mm. The turbo's are GT4294R's which can be assisted with a 200 wet shot of nitrous.
I'm sure you are aware of some of the hostilities that surface regarding torque and hp claims. Without posting everything, together with footnotes and actual runs, we would be misconstrued and ridiculed. We are very close to having this car completed. At that time we will perform some timed verifiable runs along with a dyno run complete with all information as to the conditions of test. This information will be posted. We will then answer any of your questions.
Torque on these stroker motors comes on a bit earlier than the non stroker. Depending on the stroke used, we have seen far more torque which simply was not available under any conditions with a standard stroked 3.6L motor. The liner pressures are so much greater that far thicker steel liners are required.
Last edited by cjv; 12-07-2008 at 05:11 PM.
#402
12-07-2008, 05:56 PM
Gramicci,
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
WOW, 1600 fwhp. You increased the stroke to what and how much did the overall displacement go to now?
#403
12-07-2008, 06:45 PM
[/quote][quote=cjv;2164193]Joe,
I figured it would be at the crank but wasn't sure because the OP was talking in relation to wheel power.No worries
Got ya....and this was one of the reasons i am curious to see the dynograph because with turbos this large full boost occurs usually after these motors peak torque range.These turbos will make lots of horsepower but usually not so much torque(comparatively speaking).The change in stroke+ 200 shot definetely will make this obtainable though and had not realized you had gotten this far already.I thought you were still having issues with getting the motor developed.Kudos!
I understand.Which is why i asked to see the dyno because i figured since you alluded to the fact you made 1000ft lbs it was something that you could share.
quote]The stroke will be very beneficial when used in conjunction with a set 0f 42R's and should set your car apart from all the rest.Lots of Luck!
I have said they are engine dyno tests ....... so it would be at the crank. I hope you give me more credit than that.
The turbo's are GT4294R's which can be assisted with a 200 wet shot of nitrous.
I'm sure you are aware of some of the hostilities that surface regarding torque and hp claims. Without posting everything, together with footnotes and actual runs, we would be misconstrued and ridiculed.
Torque on these stroker motors comes on a bit earlier than the non stroker. Depending on the stroke used, we have seen far more torque which simply was not available under any conditions with a standard stroked 3.6L motor. The liner pressures are so much greater that far thicker steel liners are required.[/
#404
12-07-2008, 06:45 PM
1600hp
Gramicci,
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
We have three motors that have been in various stages over the last four years. They have been assembled, engine dyno'ed, broken down and then use what was learned on the next test.
We know what each set up rendered. We know what each group of changes rendered. We do not know what the lastest added stroke (78.4 to 80.5 mm), bore (102 to 105.7 mm) and deck height (201 mm) will bring to the table, however based off what we already know and existing formula's for what we have, we can safely determine where we will be at any predetermined boost.
Increasing the stroke is key to increasing the torque. Increasing the bore will mildly to moderately increase torque. What increase bore really helps is in the hp department. Depending on where we set the boost 1.0 to 2.5 bar, she will produce 900 to just under 1600 fwhp.
#405
12-07-2008, 07:41 PM
I dont have the dyno sheet from here in Texas, however I am certain that Todd has a copy of it some where in his shop. You can write him for the results. I have never seen either dyno sheets, here in Texas or the ones from Arkansas. I have been told they are very impressive but what is more important is that I can and do drive this car daily :-) Just went through 15 gallons of C16 this weekend.... and a few victims.
Happy Holiday
Robert
PS Joe
Do you think you will make it down to the Supra Nats? I would like to compare our builds.
Lastly, any news about Suman's car?
Happy Holiday
Robert
PS Joe
Do you think you will make it down to the Supra Nats? I would like to compare our builds.
Lastly, any news about Suman's car?